357 mag vs 30-30 which is better for deer season.

[shdwlkr]

just curious how about the .357 Remington maximum out of rifle and 180 grain bullet and the 30-30 with 170 grain bullet, which is better? both with 24 inch barrel

[NSB]

just curious how about the .357 Remington maximum out of rifle and 180 grain bullet and the 30-30 with 170 grain bullet, which is better? both with 24 inch barrel

Having shot a fair number of deer with the .357max I can tell you that “at distance” the 180g bullets don’t expand much, if at all. I’ve used Hornady 180g XTPs, and last year two deer at 189 yards with the Speer HotCore 180g. The deer shot with the HotCores at 189 were recovered but the entrance and exit holes were “pencil in-pencil out”. This year I ordered a .358Win bbl for my TC Encore and will try that. FWIW, mv on the 180g bullets was close to 2400fps.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

One of the joys of deer hunting in the forest is being able to get close to your quarry. Accuracy is no substitute for field craft. All my firearm hunting for deer has been with a .308 or 30-06. This year I may use my Super Blackhawk because I have shot it enough to be proficient. All that being said I would choose the 30-30.

[dverna]

If the question is "Which one is better?" the answer should be, "by what measure do we determine better?"

If by better you mean easier and cheaper to reload such that practice with hunting-worthy loads costs less time and money to achieve, then the 357 is better and will do the job if you do yours.
If by better you mean that mistakes in the field will be compensated for by the flat trajectory of the bullet and its power, then the 30-30 is better.

I don't own a scoped rifle in a deer-worthy cartridge and with iron sights offhand I'm not a good enough shot to try for a deer much beyond 100 yards anyway, so a stout 357 is fine for me. If your skill level and equipment are different, a 30-30 might be just the ticket.

It is recommendations like this that I find puzzling. A person admits they are not a good shot (BTW your honesty is refreshing!!!) and then suggest a mediocre cartridge because they will limit the range. And the OP has a very good deer gun in the .30/30....so why????

As for cheaper practice, the OP can still use his .357, then hunt with the .30/30....but there are cheaper ways to practice than loading .38/.357.

While I am on a bit of a rant....everything a person needs to learn about shooting a hunting rifle or pistol proficiently can be learned inexpensively with the lowly .22 RF (if they planned and stocked up) and/or an air gun. But it is so much more "manly" to throw 150-300 gr of lead at 1000-2500 fps and feel the rush of ecstasy from the recoil, making a loud noise, and hearing a "satisficing" clang; as they hit a 6" steel target at 100 yards...most of the time.... "if they do their part".

Those five words "if they do their part" are a pet peeve of mine. What they really mean are the laws of statistics have allowed poor load development and/or poor shooting skills to result in a good outcome...also called luck. Not a big deal to fool yourself when shooting paper and steel for ****s and giggles but unethical when hunting game.

Hunting boils down to knowing your ethical range and using enough gun. People who shoot a lot know their ethical range, and competitive shooters are the best at it because they cannot "hide/ignore" the results when they take the line.....every shot is scored...not just the good ones.

[trapper9260]

It also depend on what you can use in your state. Some states you can only use straight wall ,or they have other laws that say the size of the bullet you can use.

[NSB]

It is recommendations like this that I find puzzling. A person admits they are not a good shot (BTW your honesty is refreshing!!!) and then suggest a mediocre cartridge because they will limit the range. And the OP has a very good deer gun in the .30/30....so why????

As for cheaper practice, the OP can still use his .357, then hunt with the .30/30....but there are cheaper ways to practice than loading .38/.357.

While I am on a bit of a rant....everything a person needs to learn about shooting a hunting rifle or pistol proficiently can be learned inexpensively with the lowly .22 RF (if they planned and stocked up) and/or an air gun. But it is so much more "manly" to throw 150-300 gr of lead at 1000-2500 fps and feel the rush of ecstasy from the recoil, making a loud noise, and hearing a "satisficing" clang; as they hit a 6" steel target at 100 yards...most of the time.... "if they do their part".

Those five words "if they do their part" are a pet peeve of mine. What they really mean are the laws of statistics have allowed poor load development and/or poor shooting skills to result in a good outcome...also called luck. Not a big deal to fool yourself when shooting paper and steel for ****s and giggles but unethical when hunting game.

Hunting boils down to knowing your ethical range and using enough gun. People who shoot a lot know their ethical range, and competitive shooters are the best at it because they cannot "hide/ignore" the results when they take the line.....every shot is scored...not just the good ones.

Well said!

[Daekar]

It is recommendations like this that I find puzzling. A person admits they are not a good shot (BTW your honesty is refreshing!!!) and then suggest a mediocre cartridge because they will limit the range. And the OP has a very good deer gun in the .30/30....so why????

As for cheaper practice, the OP can still use his .357, then hunt with the .30/30....but there are cheaper ways to practice than loading .38/.357.

While I am on a bit of a rant....everything a person needs to learn about shooting a hunting rifle or pistol proficiently can be learned inexpensively with the lowly .22 RF (if they planned and stocked up) and/or an air gun. But it is so much more "manly" to throw 150-300 gr of lead at 1000-2500 fps and feel the rush of ecstasy from the recoil, making a loud noise, and hearing a "satisficing" clang; as they hit a 6" steel target at 100 yards...most of the time.... "if they do their part".

Those five words "if they do their part" are a pet peeve of mine. What they really mean are the laws of statistics have allowed poor load development and/or poor shooting skills to result in a good outcome...also called luck. Not a big deal to fool yourself when shooting paper and steel for ****s and giggles but unethical when hunting game.

Hunting boils down to knowing your ethical range and using enough gun. People who shoot a lot know their ethical range, and competitive shooters are the best at it because they cannot "hide/ignore" the results when they take the line.....every shot is scored...not just the good ones.

So, I think all of your points are well made, but allow me to offer another perspective on them.

First, one my personal pet peeves is the continuous inflation of perceived cartridge requirements for hunting any given type of game. You will find people who will tell you that the 30-30 is a mediocre deer cartridge and should be limited to shots under 100 yards, and that 357 magnum should be limited to shots under 50 yards. That is absolutely bonkers. If you look at what was viewed as sufficient deer medicine a century or more ago and compare that to many of today's cartridges the difference can be surprising. I don't feel that it is constructive to perpetuate this type of misinformation, so unless the deer in the OP's area have started wearing ballistic vests the difference between a hot-loaded 357 out of a rifle and a 30-30 isn't nothing, but it's not a whole lot. I'm confident that a deer at 100 yards is never going to notice the difference between properly selected 158gr boolits that leave the muzzle at 2000fps and 170gr at the same velocity, especially if the 158gr has a decent hunting meplat.

As far as learning everything one needs to know with a 22RF, I get where you're coming from but I cordially disagree. 22RF is invaluable for fundamentals and there is no replacing it, but at least in my personal experience the recoil of a more powerful cartridge, either in rifles or handguns, does make a difference in the experience and required technique. Especially in handguns, the difference to me is stark. Also, given the market conditions of the past decade, sometimes it is plain old cheaper to cast and load for an efficient centerfire cartridge than to buy a box of 22RF. At least for me, recoil isn't fun, loud noises are bad, and clangs... well yes, clangs are great. I love that noise! Usually the smaller the gong, the better the noise, but there seems to be a sweet spot where they just seem to ring longer.

So, as far as "if they do their part," I think it means more than you think it does. At least, when I use it, maybe I don't use it right. To me, doing your part means developing your skills, learning your rifle, and practicing with the load you're hunting with so you know how it behaves at different ranges. When you can put the bullet where it needs to be every time within the parameters you have set for your hunting goals, you are doing your part.

FWIW, if I were going out into the field to hunt deer away from my own property (where geography and trees/brush limit shots to less than 100 yards), I would take the 30-30 as long as I was confident in my ability with it. The point about accurately estimating distance when using rounds with a more curved trajectory is important.

[NSB]

So, I think all of your points are well made, but allow me to offer another perspective on them.

First, one my personal pet peeves is the continuous inflation of perceived cartridge requirements for hunting any given type of game. You will find people who will tell you that the 30-30 is a mediocre deer cartridge and should be limited to shots under 100 yards, and that 357 magnum should be limited to shots under 50 yards. That is absolutely bonkers. If you look at what was viewed as sufficient deer medicine a century or more ago and compare that to many of today's cartridges the difference can be surprising. I don't feel that it is constructive to perpetuate this type of misinformation, so unless the deer in the OP's area have started wearing ballistic vests the difference between a hot-loaded 357 out of a rifle and a 30-30 isn't nothing, but it's not a whole lot. I'm confident that a deer at 100 yards is never going to notice the difference between properly selected 158gr boolits that leave the muzzle at 2000fps and 170gr at the same velocity, especially if the 158gr has a decent hunting meplat.

As far as learning everything one needs to know with a 22RF, I get where you're coming from but I cordially disagree. 22RF is invaluable for fundamentals and there is no replacing it, but at least in my personal experience the recoil of a more powerful cartridge, either in rifles or handguns, does make a difference in the experience and required technique. Especially in handguns, the difference to me is stark. Also, given the market conditions of the past decade, sometimes it is plain old cheaper to cast and load for an efficient centerfire cartridge than to buy a box of 22RF. At least for me, recoil isn't fun, loud noises are bad, and clangs... well yes, clangs are great. I love that noise! Usually the smaller the gong, the better the noise, but there seems to be a sweet spot where they just seem to ring longer.

So, as far as "if they do their part," I think it means more than you think it does. At least, when I use it, maybe I don't use it right. To me, doing your part means developing your skills, learning your rifle, and practicing with the load you're hunting with so you know how it behaves at different ranges. When you can put the bullet where it needs to be every time within the parameters you have set for your hunting goals, you are doing your part.

FWIW, if I were going out into the field to hunt deer away from my own property (where geography and trees/brush limit shots to less than 100 yards), I would take the 30-30 as long as I was confident in my ability with it. The point about accurately estimating distance when using rounds with a more curved trajectory is important.

I think both of you are making good points with your comments.

[quilbilly]

You started me thinking about this since I have both for my area. In my 30/30 I use 179 gr. boolits from the old Lyman -041 mold and in the 357 I use boolits from the NOE 189 gr (my alloy) WFPB mold. Both are superb hunting boolits for different conditions. I use the 30/30 in early fall when I work the edge of local logged clearcuts where I might get shots up to 150+ yards which is as far as my old eyes can aim with open sights. In the later season when the rains arrive and the deer enter the ten year old firs for shelters, the tree are six feet apart and the underbrush is 8 foot tall skin-shredding berry piles, I use the 357 plain base at an mv of a leisurely 1300 fps. Shots in that later season are rarely more than 50 yards and often just a few feet. In that late season, if a deer goes more than a few steps, he might be gone with no blood trail to follow due to the rain. In those tough conditions, penetration is less important than power of impact which that NOE boolit or a heavy SWC provides in abundance. Trying to compare those rifles is like trying to compare a 1-1/2 pound claw hammer with a four pound sledge hammer. Different tools for different conditions.

[JM7.7x58]

A 158 grain bullet shot out of a .357 carbine will be carrying a 1000 pounds of energy at 50 yards.

A 170 grain bullet shot out of a 30-30 carbine will be carrying a 1000 pounds of energy at 150 yards.

Most of the people I hunt with buy a black bear tag with their deer tags. The county record black bear (harvested in 2008) weighed 570 pounds. Admittedly most are much smaller than that.

Around here your deer rifle often does double duty, deer and bear. For many it is also their elk rifle. A few of the younger family guys I hunt with can’t afford multiple rifles, or they are still borrowing rifles from their families.

I’m not going to take a shot at a large predator, and then follow it into the dense brush with a marginal load.

Last weekend I was out looking for a bear. Saw a deer at 250 yards on the far side of a clear cut, I would not take that shot with my 30-30 carbine, but I would with my 30-06.

If I could only have one rifle, and had to choose between a 30-30 or a .357, my choice would be the 30-30 all day long.

[Larry Gibson]

Given the OP is pushing both to 2000 fps with decent cast bullets I doubt any deer shot in the heart/lung with either would know the difference.

[Ural Driver]

For most all of the reasons previously stated......I gotta go with the 30-30.

[facetious]

I don't have ether one, but would like one in .357. My thinking is that if you want a hunting rifle that you can plink with now and then get the 30/30. If you want a fun gun to plink with that can be used to hunt with now and then get the .357.

[Lloyd Smale]

if your talking cast bullet bigger diameter is about always going to make a better killer. If its jacketed id stick with the good old 3030. One of the only rounds that has bullet designed just for it and its velocity. It just plain works

[JohnH]

Just to muddy the waters (because I can't resist) there really ain't enough difference between a 357 and a 50 cal muzzle loader with round ball to matter. In fact the 357 at 100 yards from a rifle outperforms the muzzle loader. Any body want to say the 50 ain't up to the task?, Before ya do, have ya ever seen what a 50 cal round ball does to deer shot at 50 yards? The 44-40 with black was never better than 1300 fps with a 200 grain bullet, I'd be willing to bet that the humble '73 was used to kill as many if not more deer as the '94. Ya gotta have your wits about ya and ya gotta know your and your rifles limitations and be willing *and able* to walk away from poor and risky shots. For a woods and edges hunter, 60 yards is a long shot. Most deer I've killed in those conditions have been at and *under* 40 yards. I've been shooting deer for 45 years and have only shot one at 225 yards, one at 80 yards. All the others were 60 and under the majority being 35-40 with 2 shot a 10 yards. OP said he was limited to shots of 100 max. This means he is most likely going to be doing his shooting at 30 to 60 yards. In this situation, shot placement is more important. Pass up the risky and iffy shots, put the bullet in it's chest just behind the shoulder, stay under 100 yards and you'll have meat on the table with either gun you choose to use. Do your homework and practice from field positions, at least one to one shot for every one off a bench, get honest with your limitations then be true to them and to the deer and you'll do well.

[thadfz]

Now that we’ve got it hashed out….. most importantly………..



Come back and let us know the rest of the story when you smack that deer!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1006]

If one of the few chances I can go hunting arises, I take the best caliber I own, not a lesser caliber just to see if it works. The 357 is certainly a great caliber, but why waste one of a few opportunities for a successful hunt on an experiment?

[MT Gianni]

Just to muddy the waters (because I can't resist) there really ain't enough difference between a 357 and a 50 cal muzzle loader with round ball to matter. In fact the 357 at 100 yards from a rifle outperforms the muzzle loader. Any body want to say the 50 ain't up to the task?, Before ya do, have ya ever seen what a 50 cal round ball does to deer shot at 50 yards? The 44-40 with black was never better than 1300 fps with a 200 grain bullet, I'd be willing to bet that the humble '73 was used to kill as many if not more deer as the '94. Ya gotta have your wits about ya and ya gotta know your and your rifles limitations and be willing *and able* to walk away from poor and risky shots. For a woods and edges hunter, 60 yards is a long shot. Most deer I've killed in those conditions have been at and *under* 40 yards. I've been shooting deer for 45 years and have only shot one at 225 yards, one at 80 yards. All the others were 60 and under the majority being 35-40 with 2 shot a 10 yards. OP said he was limited to shots of 100 max. This means he is most likely going to be doing his shooting at 30 to 60 yards. In this situation, shot placement is more important. Pass up the risky and iffy shots, put the bullet in it's chest just behind the shoulder, stay under 100 yards and you'll have meat on the table with either gun you choose to use. Do your homework and practice from field positions, at least one to one shot for every one off a bench, get honest with your limitations then be true to them and to the deer and you'll do well.

I have had the opportunity to dress out several elk killed with a 50 cal rb. I have never had the urge to pack one of my 357 rifles on an elk hunt.

[FergusonTO35]

I've actually owned a Marlin 1894 .357 alot longer than I have had my .30-30's, however I have killed a pile of deer with the .30-30 and none with the .357. There are a couple of reasons, but the main one is that I don't want to subject my cherry 1982 .357 to high pressure ammo. Especially since there is no such thing as factory parts and service for it anymore. These days it just sees the Lee 358-125-RF with mild charges, which will still kill just about anything at closer distance. Bottleneck cartridges are allowed for hunting here, and I have alot of experience shooting and loading the .30 WCF so no reason not to use it.

Now, every now and again the .357 does accompany me on a walk through the woods during rifle season, it's about perfect for sneaking through the thick brush where you can't really see beyond 50 yards anyway. If I got invited to hunt a straight wall cartridge state, I would work up some Hornady XTP loads for it.

[45-70marlin]

Take the 357 one day then the 30-30 the next. I have killed deer with both. Put your shot where it belongs, no problem.