357 mag vs 30-30 which is better for deer season.

[farmbif]

I worked up a load today and shot my Rossi 92 for a little while. 158 grain bullets, 358156 under 18.5 grains 300mp- no excessive pressure signs. my go to load for this bullet has been 17 or 17.5 grains but I got real bored today. I should have got out the chrono, but I'm guessing velocity is right around 2000 fps. the loads ive been shooting in my 30-30s, lee 170 grain gas checked is also right around 2000 fps.
ive got a new mp 360640gc, I'm guessing with hollow point and cutting my wheel weight alloy with 50% pure lead it will make a good deer bullet.

I'm not a super experienced hunter but on my property if coyotes keep to the neighbors chickens I just might get a chance at a deer this year.
for 100 yard or less which would be better for deer hunt.

[NSB]

I’ve shot somewhere around sixty-five to seventy deer with various .357mag handguns and rifles. I’ve only shot a couple with a 30-30. That doesn’t make me think the .357 is better, just more used. However, cartridge isn’t what kills deer, bullet placement does. I’d say either would be equal with case and the distances you mention. Jacketed bullets and factory loads would put the 30-30 ahead.

[farmbif]

that's why I ask. my back pasture will get the hay mowed out of it in a week or 2 and ill have my 100+ yard range back to practice accuracy skills. I had been thinking 35 rem but shooting the 357 with max loads today was a lot of fun shooting from under a big shade tree into a giant sycamore about 75 yards off

[Mk42gunner]

I've carried both deer hunting, but never saw a shootable deer while carrying the .357 Carbine.

My gut says the two calibers will perform okay out to about 100 yards, over that take the .30-30.

I think the third round you mention will out perform both though. Unfortunately I stopped deer hunting before I ever shot one with a .35 Remington.

Robert

[dverna]

I only hunt deer with a .308. Given the choice of .357 or .30/30, I would select the .30/30. The .30/30 will give better range and energy.

But I only hunt with jacketed bullets.

[725]

As good as the .357 is, hands down, the .30-30 is better. As noted above, shot placement is everything.

[243winxb]

The one that is most accurate.

[dverna]

The one that is most accurate.

Accuracy is NOT that important and I get tired of it being used to justify marginal calibers. Should someone use a .357 shooting 2 MOA at 100 yards or a .30/30 that does 3 MOA?

At 100 yards it will not matter...and that is about as far as you can push a .357. With the more "inaccurate" .30/30 you can reach out to 200 yards and still hit the vitals.

Most hunters are not effective marksmen when shooting under field conditions so accuracy is over-rated IMO. Now, if someone is very capable shooter, they can push the limits. Those hunters are the exception and not the norm.

I know a few "hunters" who shoot at anything to fill their tag. They will take risky shots and get "buck fever". But at least they know they are poor shots and "hunters" and use way more gun than a .357.

[NSB]

Back when I was shooting competition all over the country, the NSSF rep once told me that the “average shooter/hunter” shot less than two boxes of shells a year. Most of those were shotgun shells besides. I have no reason to not believe that. It becomes very evident at our local ranges when people who are members show up the week (or day) before opening day of deer season to sight in and “practice”. Most of them are happy to just hit the paper, let alone the center. It’s usually “good enough” for going hunting. Actual target shooters/competitions are less than 2% of the gun owners in this country. Yep, most people who own guns don’t shoot very well. DVerna is spot on with his remarks.

[farmbif]

you feel that a max 357 mag load out of a rifle is a marginal caliber for white tail?

[NSB]

you feel that a max 357 mag load out of a rifle is a marginal caliber for white tail?

I don’t feel it’s marginal if used within the distance the cartridge was designed to be used in….and by someone who can put the bullet in the kill zone. I have many recovered bullets from deer I’ve shot with the .357mag and it loses it’s “steam” pretty quickly. The 30-30 is probably a better choice after the 100 yard mark. I have bullets recovered from twenty-five yards out to a ninety-five yards on the same deer and the bullets were within a couple of inches of each other under the off-side hide. Huge difference in expansion. Every hunter should use the right bullet, be able to hit where they’re aiming, and pass on shots that are out of their reach/ability depending on how the shot presents itself.

[Sam Sackett]

Another variable that comes into play is estimating distance. If you hunt in thick brush and the shots will all be within 50 to 75 yards, either caliber will do fine. But, and I’ll say this is a big one for most folks, how well can you estimate distance? If you are hunting more open woods with maybe field edges thrown in, can you really correctly estimate 100 yards versus 125 or 150?

For most folks, the 30-30 is the best choice.

Sam Sackett

[John Taylor]

Foot pounds of energy, 357 ( 158 grain)= 539 and the 30-30 (150 grain) = 1,905. Of corse the 357 out of a rifle will have more but it still will not be up to the 30-30.

[farmbif]

I don't know how to figure those foot pounds numbers but
160 grains at 2000 fps vs 173 grains at 2000 fps

[dverna]

Another variable that comes into play is estimating distance. If you hunt in thick brush and the shots will all be within 50 to 75 yards, either caliber will do fine. But, and I’ll say this is a big one for most folks, how well can you estimate distance? If you are hunting more open woods with maybe field edges thrown in, can you really correctly estimate 100 yards versus 125 or 150?

For most folks, the 30-30 is the best choice.

Sam Sackett

The flatter trajectory calibers are more forgiving and range estimation is less critical. Your point is spot on!!

Even with my .308's I spend the first few minutes in a blind ranging bushes, posts, etc out to my ethical range limit. I use a good range finder.

The other factor in longer ranges is wind. The .30/30 is better than a .357 in that respect.




And yes, farmbif, IMHO a .357 is "marginal". I would not take a 200 yard shot with a .357 unless I really needed the meat. I would have little concern about using a .30/30 at 200 yards.

This is an interesting article and note that the .30/30 was a "Trapper" model with 16.5" barrel so a normal .30/30 performs a bit better:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/le...vs-357-magnum/

When we recommend a caliber, on a forum like this there are a variety of skills levels we need to consider. In fact, if someone has to ask a question like, "Is the .334 Super Thumper good for elk at 650 yards?", it pretty well telegraphs the person asking is likely not capable of making the shot, or knowledgeable enough to read a ballistics chart.

You admitted "I'm not a super experienced hunter". You can kill a deer at 100 yards if you can make the shot. But your .30/30 is a better choice...a much better choice. If the deer is at 150 yards will you take the shot? If you place the .357 correctly it will take that 150 deer, but do you know the hold over?

This from Chuck Hawks: https://www.chuckhawks.com/30-30Win.htm

Set up a scoped .30-30 so that the Winchester Supreme 150 grain factory load strikes dead on at 200 yards and the trajectory looks like this: +3.3 inches high at 100 yards, +2.8 at 150 yards, 0 at 200 yards, -5.7" at 250 yards, and -14.7" at 300 yards. The point blank range of a .30-30 set up this way is in excess of 225 yards for deer size animals.

With the standard Winchester Silvertip 170 grain factory load it is probably better to zero the rifle to hit 2.9" high at 100 yards. That way the bullet strikes only 1.8 inches low at 200 yards. So sighted the .30-30 has a MPBR (+/- 3") of 211 yards.

[Win94ae]

for 100 yard or less which would be better for deer hunt.

At that short of range, the 357 is all you need. Put the bullet in the right spot.

[Daekar]

If the question is "Which one is better?" the answer should be, "by what measure do we determine better?"

If by better you mean easier and cheaper to reload such that practice with hunting-worthy loads costs less time and money to achieve, then the 357 is better and will do the job if you do yours.
If by better you mean that mistakes in the field will be compensated for by the flat trajectory of the bullet and its power, then the 30-30 is better.

I don't own a scoped rifle in a deer-worthy cartridge and with iron sights offhand I'm not a good enough shot to try for a deer much beyond 100 yards anyway, so a stout 357 is fine for me. If your skill level and equipment are different, a 30-30 might be just the ticket.

[scattershot]

Range, energy, trajectory, bullet weight, ballistic coefficient, all favor the 30/30.

[Thunder Stick]

As the owner of a JM Marlin 1894C in 357 magnum, the efficiency of the cartridge from a long barrel amazes me. 158 grain jacketed factory ammo fired from my gun matches the printed tables that show a muzzle velocity of 1830 F.P.S. and 1175 F.P. of energy. That is a whopping 600 F.P.S. increase over the same ammo from a revolver.

Looking at the table below, the 200 yard ballistics from the carbine are roughly equal to the ballistics of the same ammo out of a handgun at the muzzle. (1138/458) But keep going and things get interesting.



At 300 yards, the 158gr projectile is traveling 980 FPS and has 337 FPE. From the same catalog, 9mm 147gr pistol ammo leaves the muzzle of a pistol at 990 FPS and 320 FPE.

At 400 yards, the 357 magnum is clocking 883 FPS and 274 FPE. Roughly equal to 38 Special +P 158gr ammo at the muzzle of a 4” barrel.

At 500 yards, the 357 mag is still besting a 38 Special 158gr MP standard velocity load measuring 800 FPS and 225 FPE.

The rainbow trajectory looks a lot like another oldie, the 45-70. But even after going sub sonic, the 357 magnum is still packing the mail. All that from a puny little cartridge. It still puts a smile on my face to be able to keep my shots on a paper plate at 200 yards offhand.

What a great cartridge!

The original 30 WCF load was a 160 grain patched bullet at 1970 FPS. Making the .357 158 grain load at 1830 look much like a 30-30 class cartridge.

[Shawlerbrook]

I love the 357, but if legal in your area the 30 30 beats it hands down.