Had a Marling 1893 come in a few months back with the same problem, made a new locking lug to take up the headspace. Also had to add a little weld to the bolt where the lever pushes the bolt forward.
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Had a Marling 1893 come in a few months back with the same problem, made a new locking lug to take up the headspace. Also had to add a little weld to the bolt where the lever pushes the bolt forward.
I have a Marlin M 1892 in 32 CF that has excessive headspace. It wasn’t really causing any problems shooting the gun with the extremely low powered handloads but I wanted to try to fix it. I removed the lever and bolt and carefully hammered the end of the lever to lengthen it to move the bolt forward when the action is closed.
I stopped at the point where there was no more to gain and never removed any metal and gained about .008 less headspace but it still has at least .010 still and I don’t think it was ever any better fit than that when it was new.
The bolt face seems to be in good shape and not battered or peened so a different bolt would be needed to make any difference or setting the barrel back and I am not doing either since it fires just fine.
I don’t think headspace was though to be a big issue when these rifles were made .
Jedman
On rimmed bottlenecked cartridges, I like to use the brass that's been fired in that particular chamber, and set my sizing die to slightly bump the shoulder. If things start getting tight, I'll adjust a little lower on the die.
It's true that these rounds are meant to headspace on the rim, but in the "real world", ya gotta do whatcha gotta do. For whatever reasons, headspacing is all over the place on many of these rifles, and usually not on the tight side. I'd suggest never loading for pressure on the high side, and there's simply no reason to stretch your brass twenty thousandths every time you use it. jd
It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.
The cases were factory new and were not sized. The only thing I did was chamfer and very lightly bell the case mouths to stop the lead from being shaved off the bullets.Originally Posted by RickinTN
Of course, factory new brass may be smaller than the rifle's chamber. I would want to compare the fired cases to the new cases.
Cheers, Richard
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You can size the shoulder back all you want, it won't matter in a rimmed case. The rim thickness , the chamber recess cut depth,,and the difference betw the 2 dimensions is the headspace in the rifle.
Very light loads can usually show some primer set back. The amt that the primer backs out and stays backed out is the headspace in the system.
Too much,,and you will elliminate the visual issue of set back primers with heavier loads,,, but then most likely have the brass stretching at the web above the solid base as the case will now grab and hold the sides of the chamber. The rear portion then stretches and sets back against the bolt face.
The primer is reseated, but the case is stretched out each time it's fired.
Either fix the excess headspace problem altogether.
Or fireform the brass for that particular rifle and take advantage of the shoulder of the case to form the front headspace point instead of relying on the the front of the rim.
Some people load the brass with a bullet seated way out to touch the rifling so it pushes the case back against the bolt face and holds it there upon firing.
Another way is to neck up the brass on caliber and then size it back down again to it's needed caliber but in increments leaving the oversize neck as a new front shoulder. When the case will just chamber with a bit of resistance against that oversize caliber neck, stop there and reload it. Then fire the case and it will be fireformed to the chamber with zero HS.
One other way is to place a very thin rubber O-ring in front of the rim and chamber & fire the round. The O-ring will push the case back against the breech and once again fireform the case w/ zero headspace.
You only have to use the O-ring for the fireforming step.
Any of these methods will work. Segregate that fireformed brass for use in that particular rifle as it is now specific to the chamber w/ excess headspace.
But you have accounted for that and made adjustment for it.
Neck size when reloading so as not to push the shoulder back again and re-introduce excess headspace once again.
Brass life will be normal for a L/A rifle.
They do best when not trying to make a magnum anything out of them.
I also assumed that the lever played a role in positioning the bolt, but was told in no uncertain terms by a bunch of knowledgable people on here that the lever just moves the bolt, the bolt block holds it in place. If you extend the lever to hold the bolt in place I think you just wear the end of the lever.
The solution in post #21 sounds much more durable.
2152hq said
Another way is to neck up the brass on caliber and then size it back down again to it's needed caliber but in increments leaving the oversize neck as a new front shoulder. When the case will just chamber with a bit of resistance against that oversize caliber neck, stop there and reload it. Then fire the case and it will be fireformed to the chamber with zero HS.
I think this is a great idea, and the perfect way to prevent over-stretching your brass on a lot of sloppy headspace situations. Just be aware that this brass isn't gonna fit a "in spec chamber". jd
It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.
low pressure, did you find smoky-sooty case necks after extraction? I would up the charge.
That is the whole idea here. The OP is dealing with what appears to be an excess HS issue. This method of creating an new shoulder to HS against to blow the brass out 'in this particular rifle' is just that.
A way to expand the brass and also avoid stretching it at the same time.
The point of segregating the brass for this rifle is because it likely will not fit in a 'spec' chamber in another same chambered rifle.
The shoulder is too far forward and is purposely placed there but for this rifle and it's excess HS issue.
This gets rid of that problem. The brass and the chamber now match even though they don't match SAAMI specs.
Kind of a Wildcat chamber situation.
Brit 303 SMLE shooters run into this same issue a lot. Reloading 303Brit and F/L sizing the brass often leads to head separations as the chambers often have excess HS. Sometimes as early as the 2nd or 3rd reloading of the case.
Same deal,,fireform the brass using one of the methods explained to blow the shoulder forward w/o stretching the case head.
But, then segregate and keep the brass for each rifle separated (most Enfield shooters have more than one rifle!).
Neck size only from there on and the brass life is uncommonly normal.
Upping the load can make the set back primer issue disappear usually. But it makes the other issue of the stretched case ahead of the solid base come into play and that can lead to the head separations after just a few reloadings depending on how bad out of spec the HS is.
The severely backed out primers are telling you something.
You can measure the backed out primers and how far they are above the case head. That will give you a pretty good idea of how much HS the rifle has.
Not exact as the case itself may have set back at least somewhat upon firing,,and may not have.
Look up the SAAMI specs for the 25-35WCF round It's on pg 76 of the SAAMI resource manual
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...sting-Copy.pdf
Minimum HS is .063"
Maximum HS is .070"
The rim thickness of the 25-25 case is usually at .060" but can vary a couple .000 and usually do with mfg'r.
Measure the rim thickness of the case
Add to that the height the backed out primer is above the case head.
If the rim is .060"
Plus the backed out primer is .010" high
The shade tree H/S measurement is .070"
Right at Max SAAMI spec.
You can also take a clean unprimed case. Measure the rim thickness.
Say again it's .060"
Then start adding shim mtrl to the head of the case.
Building it up in layers and trying it in the chamber and 'gently' closing the action.
When the action just starts to feel resistance to closing completely,,stop there from adding any more shim,,and now measure the rim thickness plus the added
shim matrl.
That difference in thickness betw it and the clean unshimmed case rim thickness will again be a shade-tree H/S measurement of the H/S in that rifle chamber.
Often clear tape is used as the shim matrl as it doesn't compress like masking tape does. It takes some fiddling to do this applying single small round dots of tape one at a time and re-trying the case carefully but it does result in a fairly good reading.
Of course a set of real HS gauges is best and learn how to 'read' then when using them.
Jedman was speaking of the Model 1892, which has no locking lug. Like a Model 39, the only thing holding the bolt closed is the arm on the lever. S.O.P. for tightening up either one is to peen the lever arm to be a bit longer.
The 1894 has a locking lug, so in those the lever arm is just moving the bolt into battery.
Cognitive Dissident
Not sure everyone is picking up the OP has a Winchester 1894 which has a locking lug. Same for the Winchester 1892. The Marlin 1892 does not have a lock lug. The Marlin 1893 does have a locking lug.
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