birchwood water base walnut stain ???

[hard88cast]

I Have a raw forearm I need to color to match and protect or seal for my gunsmith fitting for tenon screws.
Being new to this process i am looking at the birchwood casey kit that comes with 3oz of "WATER" based stain and 3oz of truoil, 3oz conditioner??? and some supplies. Kit is $20..
I would think 3oz of these products would be plenty for just a forearm ?

My raw walnut forearm is much lighter then the factory browning 71 stock, wondering if the truoil will darken it enough itself or should I really use stain to get the color match. ?

Two concerns:
First is using a water based product on raw wood. My experience with water based stains is terrible, used it on decking and leaves a sealed surface, dont know if thats the same with this product ? Swelling the raw wood ?.

Second is the factory browning 71 stock, must have some epoxy/urethane coating on it, Its beautiful but the factory forearm(im replacing) and the stock are so slick that the lever action cant be operated in a real fast(emergency) manner without losing your grip. Its not so much the stock as it is the forearm slickness. I dont want a slick rifle. Besides adding checkering, will the truoil/sanding finish tame down that factory gloss slickness ?.
thanks

[Randy Bohannon]

Why not try it inside the barrel channel where it won’t be seen if it’s not what you want ?

[bangerjim]

I never use water based anything! It raises the grain, makes the wood rough, and gives a horrible surface to apply finish, even if you re-sand and steel wool it. Stick with aniline dies or oil-based stains for best results.

I have been doing wood refinishing/restoration in the antique furniture market for over 40 years and know my way around a piece of wood. Check out the many quality stains at WoodCraft.com


banger

[hard88cast]

I will try inside the forearm first no matter what i do, ok bangerjim your experience with water based is the same as mine, i will forget the kit with the water based stain and go to my paint store and get oil.

[444ttd]

i'm trying old masters wiping stain for my stocks. i used red mahogany on my 91 argentine and i want to use cherry wiping stain on another.

https://myoldmasters.com/product/wiping-stain

[bangerjim]

Oil stains are an old chestnut that's been around for generations. They are finely ground pigments in a volatile oil vehicle that is very hard to mess up. Just takes 24+ hours to dry completely.

If you ever get the chance to get some Non Grain Raising (NGR) aniline die stains, try one. Clear transparent colors that make the grain bloom and pop out! And they dry completely in a couple hours! You do NOT wipe them off.....they soak in. That is all I use these days....have 10 different Mohawk brand colors I intermix. Also Mohawk spray tinting lacquers are the best for exact color & patina matching. I can take a fresh new piece of mahogany or walnut I just cut/turned/shaped and match it PERFECTLY with a 200 year piece of furniture. Amazing technique.

[Randy Bohannon]

bangerjim, what timing on your choice and technique of materials. Just watched a This Old House episode and the guy was doing exactly what you described ,tinting lacquer and his stains were amazing.
I accidentally learned to do shellac ,fascinating how the old timers did it before Home Despot or Ace were around .

[MostlyLeverGuns]

To match colors, I have a selection of mostly Minwaxand some Valspar stains that I blend together to get the correct shade and tone. All are oil based, I complete with a thinned Helmsman Spar Varnish. You do not need to buy something that says 'GUN' finish or 'GUN' stain to get high quality results on gun wood. I have used Linspeed and Truoil finishes and find no advantage to them. While almost no finish is truly WATERPROOF, modern polyurethane varnishes are highly water resistant, more durable, and provide better protection for the wood than the old traditional 'pure' oil finishes. There are many internet tests that cover various finishes, linseed and other oils seldom fare well until combined with varnish or poly finishes.

[bangerjim]

All my finishing technologies are used on antique clocks and furniture, not gun stocks.

A stock MUST be as water resistant as possible, even sweat! Clear polyurethane top coat(s) are best. Just be sure the under coats will accept poly on top!!!! Some will, some won't. If not compatible, you will end up with orange peal, cracking, and flaking later.

[hard88cast]

The wife had some english chestnut minwax oil stain. So I tried it in the inside area of the forearm and it looked like a great match to the stock so I did the forearm and it looks great.
I have not sanded or done anything else at this time, I can not finish the inletting of the stock till my new barrel is installed.
So basically have two light coats of this stain on it and not sure if I should go any further till my new octagon barrel is installed.

[hard88cast]

can a poly finish be applied over a truoil sanded finish?
(need to sand and fill the grain, was thinking multiple truoil sanding applications).

OR

is the truoil a waste of time since I will put a poly top coat on

[bangerjim]

Shellac is one of the oldest finishes next to wax. It is easy to apply and lasts a relatively long time with it's protection. 4 pound cut is normally what you find in the big box stores and is aimed at top coating. Be careful.....1 or 2 coats MAX, as subsequent coats tend to crinkle and orange peal. I use it diluted 50% with alcohol for seal coat between oil stains and poly finishes. It also "tames down" the wild grain you find in pine and other soft woods when used a s a diluted seal coat. It is a great finishing tool for your workshop that is many times overlooked!

Shellac "dries/cures" by oxidation and not evaporation, so you need to treat it a bit differently that liqueur or poly when letting it cure.

Good luck with your exploration of wood finishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me know if you have any questions, as I have been doing this for many decades and have taught classes on various wood finishing techniques in schools, clubs, and associations.

[bangerjim]

can a poly finish be applied over a truoil sanded finish?
(need to sand and fill the grain, was thinking multiple truoil sanding applications).

OR

is the truoil a waste of time since I will put a poly top coat on

I do not know the chemical makeup of truiol as I never have used it. (I do not refinish guns.) It is probably a "secret concoction" made by gun people and marketed specifically for that market. Just because it says "GUN something" on the label does not mean it is the best choice for you. Chances are is it is just an oil-based vehicle containing tung or walnut oil with possibly finely ground pigments in it, just like Minwax. (I do not allow Minwax in my shops!) Pigmented oil stains do NOT penetrate the wood deeply, leave a cloudy colored film over the grain, and you generally are instructed to wipe it off. A total waste! That is why I always use aniline dye NGR type stains that completely penetrate the grain, "wake it up", and give glowing transparent finishes.

I would recommend testing a sample before proceeding with the entire stock!

As far as Minwax or any wiping oil stain out there, the clear colored liquid riding on top of the pigments in the bottom of the can (before you shale or stir it) is as close to a transparent dye stain as you can get. They will offer you a very weak & anemic coloring, as the real color of those types of stains comes from the non-transparent ground pigments in the bottom of the can you must stir up B4 use.

Once you use dye stains, you will throw all oil-based and Minwax stains out!

Good luck!

[2152hq]

A lot of people swear by TruOil. It's simple to use. It's just a linseed oil based varnish using a synthetic resin. It has dryer(s) in it and is somewhat thinned out with mineral spirits.
No deep secret to the stuff.
I've never like it it personally. Never had the good luck most others seem to have had with it. This goes back to the 60's.
Most of the drying took place with the stuff still in the little bottle while the coating on the wood sits and gets tacky but never really dries,,just like real linseed will do.

Anyway, hats off to those that find it a usable finish. It's been around for many years so it must work somehow.

So I'm in the 'It's a waste of time' catagory when it comes to TruOil but that's just from my own unfortunate experience with it.

I like to use Tung Oil as a finish. If I do use Linseed at all it's for the very last couple of micro thin rubbed out to nothing over the final what ever real finish I decided to use on that particular stock.

Some stocks are finished with shellac, others with varnish, some with a poly sanded in. Stain is usually an alcohol base but I admit to using oil base to go over in betw finish coats to add some tone to the work.
I know most will say it can't soak in because of the finish on the wood already. But a tiny amt does and that's all I want it to do,,slightly color the wood and evenly do so.
If you don't think an oil stain will color a piece of wood with finish already on it, then pour out some oil stain on a table or hardwood floor and see if it wipes up w/o leaving some color behind. That slight tone is all I want and it's usually a reddish or chestnut tone added to walnut that I like.

All depends on wether it's a repair& blend,,a restoration or a new build. They are all different,,or can be.

Checkering after the final finish. Then a light brushing with clear finish first. Then a staining afterwards carefully done so as not to darken the checkering too much. Often if you stain the checkering first, the amt of exposed wood surface the checkering affords will drink up the stain and darken well past where you want it to be. Hard to go backwards in color.

A couple extra coats of plain thinned out finish are brushed into the checkering after that making sure it's scrubbed clean and no build up.

[hard88cast]

All good points, thanks for all the tips, I'm learning.

[444ttd]

i used linspeed oil on my gunstock, but i've got tired of waiting for it to dry. tru oil isn't as good as it used to be. i don't know if the tru oil has gone cheaper to produce, but it shows.

i use minwax antique oil on my "old" gunstocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdAh...VideosJoeWRhea

1. citristrip
2. steam iron scratches and dents
3. sand(220, 340, 420 grit, bronze steel wool, cheesecloth)
4. wood filler and old master wipe stain(when needed)
5. sand(340 and 420 grit, bronze wool, cheesecloth)
6. minwax antique oil(depends on the wood, but its around 5 or 7 coats. i bronze wool them after every dried coat)
7. johnson's paste wax

****before johnson's paste wax i have a mixture of 3 in 1 oil and rottenstone to finish it.

https://www.lin-speed.com/
https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/produ...oz-liquid.html

[444ttd]

the pix ain't great, i don't have a cell phone, just a 'puter.


1898 spr armory in 30-40 krag






98 mauser(1944) in 8x57

[NEKVT]

I have used TruOil and Birchwood Casey Walnut stain on a number of different projects, firearms and archery. The stain is water based but is concentrated so you are not soaking the wood with water. Depending on the wood type and grain and the target color it can often be used straight or slightly diluted with multiple applications to get desired color match. I have used TruOil for a complete from scratch refinish and also just applied over several existing and varied finishes as a touch up that looks refinished without all the work and found it to be compatible with every finish I've used it on. The key to applying TruOil is to thin it 50/50 (doesn't have to be exact proportions) with mineral spirits rather than straight. This allows it to go on in very thin coats that don't build up quickly as when used straight and no additional working is necessary between coats or at the end to get a oil rubbed type looking finish. You hear about some using it straight and then working it between coats and at the end with steel wool or pumice or whatever to cut the thick glossy finish that can build up more in some areas or you can get a better result by thinning it and applying several real thin layers. I have found you can add another thin layer before it is completely dry even and still get good results.

[hard88cast]

My forearm finish is coming along nicely am shipping with rifle and parts two my smith for my conversion to start next week.
Being a beginner at finishing a raw walnut stock I did learn a couple of fine points of interest.
Although happy with the minwax/truoil/50%mineral spirit concoction that I did the project with the main thing I learned as bangerjim mentioned is the minwax does not penetrate much,just enough,barely.
As neckvt pointed out you can add another coat of stain after a few coats of truoil/50% mineral spirits, after 3 coats of the mixture, and light sanding in between(stain color diminishing) the grain is still filling in at this point, put another coat of stain on and looks beautiful. Then sanded lightly with 600 and it is sweet.
Smooth as a babies butt. At this point the grain being almost filled as I wet sanded with the truoil concoction and dried in between coats I will leave it as is until finished rifle is returned from smith to bed the forearm(unless I can talk smith into doing that )
After return from smith if the forearm needs no further sanding/ staining I will either finish with the truoil straight or poly. Can't answer that till you folks give me some more great feedback as above posts have led me to a happy forearm conclusion so far.
A couple of points to consider....
Next time I will try the anolin (sp??) Dye bangerjim mentioned for penetration aspects.
And, I like the truoil finish so far because it is matt finish and is not as slippery as the beautiful Browning 71 finish.
Now,,,,,how can I make the beautiful Browning stock finish match the Matt non slip finish of my new forearm without having to strip it completely?
Thanks

[NEKVT]

Cover the Browning finish with a few thin coats of the Truoil 50/50 and it will look like a hand rubbed oil finish instead of gloss.