Reloading EverythingLoad DataLee PrecisionRotoMetals2
MidSouth Shooters SupplySnyders JerkyTitan ReloadingWideners
Inline Fabrication Repackbox
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Reduced loads for cast boolits in a 9mm AR PCC

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Beattie, TX
    Posts
    254

    Reduced loads for cast boolits in a 9mm AR PCC

    This is an informational post for anyone looking to run reduced load cast boolits in your AR pistol caliber carbine (PCC). Let me start out by saying I am not an engineer or have a degree in physics. I’m just your average Joe. These loads are the results of my experiments using these powders and boolits in my PCC. Use caution as your results will differ from mine.

    I started down the PCC road with an 8” barrel shooting commercially obtained 124 grain copper plated bullets. 5.8 grains Power Pistol is my chosen practice load for a Glock 19 pistol, producing recoil very close to that obtained with commercially loaded defensive ammunition. Out of an 8” PCC however, it runs over 1,300 fps and produces considerable recoil, especially with the combined bolt/buffer mass of 25 ounces slamming back and forth between the barrel face and back of the receiver extension. While this setup is a great defensive addition to a carry pistol, this much recoil is not optimum in a PCC used in competition. If you are into Steel Challenge or other PCC venues, minimizing recoil while maintaining the required minimum power factor (PF) is the goal. I chose a 16” barrel for two reasons; to avoid any NFA implications and the added weight of a longer barrel can help reduce perceived recoil. The benefit of using a reduced load and longer barrel will help mitigate some of the ‘muzzle jump and dip’ that one experiences with blowback firearms as well as enable you to generate enough velocity to reach the required PF.

    Reduced load data is hard to find and by ‘cooking’ your own loads you run the risk of sticking a boolit in the barrel or worse. For powders, I used Bullseye, Unique and Power Pistol because they comprise the bulk of my pistol shooting. Instead of using jacketed or plated bullets I chose the Lyman 356402, 120 TC powder-coated boolit. I shot ten rounds of each of the three loads with the following results;

    4.0 grains Bullseye, avg velocity 1312, SD 11.95
    4.0 grains Unique, avg velocity 1213, SD 18.84
    4.2 grains Power Pistol, avg velocity 1178, SD 13.3

    I tried only these three loads to give me a starting point. They were fired from a Caldwell Lead Sled at 12 yards. The chronograph was 10 feet from the muzzle. Bullseye was the least accurate at that loading. Ejection was about 3 feet from the rifle. Unique was second in accuracy with one ragged hole slightly larger than Power Pistol and ejection 1 to 2 feet. Power Pistol was the winner in accuracy with a similar ejection distance though some rounds bounced off the shooting bench before landing on ground. Bolt speed was very slow with both Unique and Power Pistol and if you happen to be fast on the trigger the hammer may not be locked back at that point. I guess you could also run the risk of an out of battery ignition which is fairly common with 9mm blowback guns. When firing I could hear the bolt moving after the round had fired. None of the fired cases were covered in soot as it is my understanding this is an indication of an insufficient charge. Feel free to correct me if my assumption is incorrrect.

    If I had to pick a winner it would be Power Pistol. Reducing the Unique powder charge below 4.0 grains may also increase accuracy but with the reduced bolt speed I don't think I'll try it. I may try a lighter recoil spring but I’d rather stick with the stock carbine spring. Since this lower receiver assembly does double duty as both a defensive ‘pistol’ and PCC rifle it would be one less thing to carry around and swap out.

    If you’ve done similar experimentation I’d be interesting in hearing your results. Thanks for reading.

    Mods, if I've posted this in the wrong forum, my apologies.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    283

    Reduced loads for cast boolits in a 9mm AR PCC

    I am running an 8in barrel with 115 gr blue bullet and 3.5 gr Titegroup. It cycles fine and recoil is light. This is what I have on hand as my 9mm handgun practice round.

    I haven’t really grouped it properly yet; I just wanted to break it in and shoot some steel with it. It will hit a 6in steel reliably from 40+ yards using open sites while standing.

    I have run about 200 rounds through it. I have not chroned it. It is not a reliable as I would want — I had some FTFs in the last 20 rounds of that 200. Might have been getting dirty. I will clean it and see how it goes from there.

    I would have to research the buffer weight and spring. It’s a Wolfpack Armory kit I built out.

    Not sure if any of that helps. It’s pretty fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by 0802; 08-23-2021 at 09:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master 358429's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Northern Virginia, where the freeway does roam.
    Posts
    743
    I really like power pistol in 9x19.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Beattie, TX
    Posts
    254
    Quote Originally Posted by 0802 View Post
    I am running an 8in barrel with 115 gr blue bullet and 3.5 gr Titegroup. It cycles fine and recoil is light. This is what I have on hand as my 9mm handgun practice round.

    I haven’t really grouped it properly yet; I just wanted to break it in and shoot some steel with it. It will hit a 6in steel reliably from 40+ yards using open sites while standing.

    I have run about 200 rounds through it. I have not chroned it. It is not a reliable as I would want — I had some FTFs in the last 20 rounds of that 200. Might have been getting dirty. I will clean it and see how it goes from there.

    I would have to research the buffer weight and spring. It’s a Wolfpack Armory kit I built out.

    Not sure if any of that helps. It’s pretty fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Titegroup seems to be pretty popular among the PCC crowd but it's too hard to find these days. I may give it a try sometime in the future. It's much faster than power pistol and pretty close to Bullseye but my results with it were not the best. Some fine-tuning may improve results.

    Buffer weight is a much argued issue with 7.5 to 10 ounces being used widely. I'm running a 10 oz KAK buffer with sliding weights. I've tried 7.5 oz but don't really feel any difference between it and the 10 oz. I also seems most are using the standard carbine spring and a few use a .308 spring but it increases the bolt closing force waay beyond what is necessary and does not seem to mitigate any recoil.

    I had some FTFs with my 8" barrel and sent it to Rudy at Macon Armory for his feed cone enlargement. It has since not had any issues. When I decided to build the 16", I bought one one his barrels. It has had only 100 or so rounds of FMJ and lead TC boolits and so far runs 100%. If you continue to have feed issues I can recommend Rudy...I think it cost me $65 including shipping back to me.

    Yes, it is fun and so is shooting steel. Are there PCC matches near Ft. Worth?

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    283
    My signature line is outdated, I moved from Fort Worth a year ago. I’m sure there are PCC matches around there with the very active shooting culture in the area.

    Unfortunately with Triple C range closing down last year, one of the best facilities in the area is no longer in operation.

    Can you expand more on what drove you to a 16 in barrel? I’m considering another build and that length is certainly in my mind.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Beattie, TX
    Posts
    254
    Quote Originally Posted by 0802 View Post
    My signature line is outdated, I moved from Fort Worth a year ago. I’m sure there are PCC matches around there with the very active shooting culture in the area.

    Unfortunately with Triple C range closing down last year, one of the best facilities in the area is no longer in operation.

    Can you expand more on what drove you to a 16 in barrel? I’m considering another build and that length is certainly in my mind.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Oh, you must be near Cresson. I didn't know they had matches out there. I live out by Comanche.

    As far as I know the closest PCC matches are in San Antonio - 3-1/2 hours from me. So I bought my own set of steel challenge targets and hold impromptu matches here but I have few participants.

    Like I mentioned in my original post, I went to the 16" barrel to avoid NFA issues. My original PCC was a pistol with an 8" barrel. The lower was equipped with a KAK Shockwave brace. I wanted to replace the brace with a conventional M-4 type buttstock but could not do that without using a 16" or longer barrel. So when I swap barrels, I have to swap the buttstock for a brace. Another reason for the longer barrel is for more weight to mitigate the recoil. With the 8" barrel and my regular FMJ/plated reloads the recoil is pretty snappy. I don't plan on shooting lead through that barrel - another reason for a second barrel.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    283
    I moved to Eastern KS last summer. I don’t bother with ranges cause I have plenty of space and am too busy for matches, at least for now.

    I shot some factory FMJ out of my 8in early on and didn’t notice recoil being a bother. I should revisit it.

    What are you doing for optics? I’m strongly considering going to a low end Holosun or similar.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Beattie, TX
    Posts
    254
    Eastern KS eh? I was born in Coffeyville. Left there in 1963...imagine it's changed quite a bit since then.

    It's not that factory FMJ or HP ammunition is brutal to shoot. It's just harder to keep the red dot from bouncing all over the plate. As reloaders we can tailor our loads to minimize recoil and perhaps increase accuracy as well. There seems to be a trend to heavier bullets with slow powders. I might try some of the 147 grain Blue Bullets just for grins. You said you were shooting the Blue 115s. Do you notice any fouling from their polymer coating? I get streaks of powder coating in my barrel and I wonder what the difference is between their coating and my powder coating (I use Smoke's powder)?

    As far as red dots, with my 69 year-old eyes they are a necessity. I have and currently use the Primary Arms SLx, MD-ADS and MD-RGBII. The Vortex Crossfire 2 I bought on a whim and it sits on my 16" 9mm barrel. They are all reasonably priced ($90 - $150) and I've not had a lick of trouble with any of them. If you can afford one, get it and you won't look back.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check