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Thread: Oversize 7.62/.308 Brass Base - How to Correct when Small Base Dies don't work

  1. #1
    Boolit Master



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    Oversize 7.62/.308 Brass Base - How to Correct when Small Base Dies don't work

    Over the lat 40 years I have collected quite a bit of .308/7.62x51 brass as pick ups at ranges. Some of it was from military ranges, Mil-Surp, and public/club ranges. When I would resize this brass, some of it periodically would not fully chamber in my .308 case checker - this would be thrown into a box/boxes. A few months ago I bought a .308 "Small Base Die" to see if I could recover what had turned into several hundred cases in the boxes. The Small base die worked for some - but not for most of those cases. My speculation was that the brass had been fired in Machine Guns, or Rifle chambers with excess chamber space around the bases.

    I have been using the NOE Sizer body and bushings for sizing cast boolits for some years now. https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...size-die-body/
    It struck me that since the base of the .308/7.62 cases were keeping the brass from going into the Case checker after sizing, that ironing out the base bottom/rim slightly would allow the brass to be recovered for use.


    I ordered a .470 Body Bushing from NOE - https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop...-bushing-b470/ Using this, I sized down all the bases on the brass that I had saved in boxes for a rainy day project. Process was much like using a Lee Push through die, where the base/rim was ironed out to .470". Then I ran them through the sizing die again (just in case).



    I found this worked well - allowing me to recover several hundred .308/7.62 cases of commercial & Military headstamps that otherwise would have gone to scrap recycling.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master 358429's Avatar
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    "would resize this brass, some of it periodically would not fully chamber in my .308 case checker - this would be thrown into a box/"

    The cases that do not pass the case Checker test, do they fit the rifle/rifles?

    I do not own a case gauge, so I do not size to fit the checker, I adjust the dies just far enough that mixed brass will chamber easily into my guns. Then I segregate the head stamps .

    I have run into some 762/308mg or I suspect was fired inna machine gun/loose chamber that after being full-length sized would not fit my Browning blr. I do not get a lot of mechanical advantage with that Lever Action Gun for the rotating bolt to close, and I do not want to force it, it's not like a bolt action with the camming.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold


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    Mustang, thanks for reporting this. Just like you I have military brass that I could not size as you have described. I wil be doing this to mine in the very near future. Thanks again,
    Rich Baxter

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    I have used the NOE sizers to size Speer .375" 235gn bullets down to .369" for my 9.3x57 Mauser. Lots of imperial sizing wax and a heavy duty press.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by 358429 View Post
    "would resize this brass, some of it periodically would not fully chamber in my .308 case checker - this would be thrown into a box/"

    The cases that do not pass the case Checker test, do they fit the rifle/rifles?

    I do not own a case gauge, so I do not size to fit the checker, I adjust the dies just far enough that mixed brass will chamber easily into my guns. Then I segregate the head stamps .

    I have run into some 762/308mg or I suspect was fired inna machine gun/loose chamber that after being full-length sized would not fit my Browning blr. I do not get a lot of mechanical advantage with that Lever Action Gun for the rotating bolt to close, and I do not want to force it, it's not like a bolt action with the camming.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

    These cases would NOT fit in most of my .308 rifles because the expanded bases were too oversize for the chambers. I have a couple Mausers that had been converted to 7.62 chambers - at least one would allow some of the brass to be chambered.

    Thought this might provide solution for others with similar brass. It has almost become a MANTRA for some to advocate that if a sized case will not chamber it's because One should use a "Small Base" sizing die. In my case, I got out the micrometer and measured the base/rim and that's where I found it to be larger than spec. - Thus the solution I used.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master 358429's Avatar
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    After you do the special resizing do the cases fire form and can be reloaded regularly the same as any other brass?

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  7. #7
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    No problems after I reduced the base/rim size. Several loads in same brass afterwards and no issues.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master 358429's Avatar
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    Mustang that is awesome!

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  9. #9
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    An old trick for over-size 7.62 brass is to run it through a 30-06 sizing die first, then a .308 Win size die. I use a Dillon 550, with a tool head set up with a Lee Decapper, a 35 Whelen sizer (with decapping stem removed), a 30-06 Small Base die (with decapping stem removed), and lastly a .308 Small Base sizer (with expander ball in place), with plenty of Imperial lube. The 550 isn't happy if I try to do four cases at a time, but works fine if I only have two cases in the shell plate at a time. I use a Wilson case gauge to make sure the .308 shoulder is in the right place.
    Remember: Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
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    A most excellent solution.
    Don Verna


  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I have a supply of .308 mil brass to process later on and an unused small base die set so this thread is very timely for me!

    Thank you Mustang!

    Three44s
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I use an older RCBS steel 45 ACP die. The lubed 7.62 cases fit up through the top w/o any problem. I just adjust the die in the press to solidly bump the shell holder against the bottom of the die.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I use an older RCBS steel 45 ACP die. The lubed 7.62 cases fit up through the top w/o any problem. I just adjust the die in the press to solidly bump the shell holder against the bottom of the die.
    This works great, but the key is the "older RCBS die" the newer carbides with a beveled mouth dont get far enough down. I modified the shell holder to get the last little bit, just make sure the holder isnt a cheapy one, there isnt that much stress in or out and the rims of nato 7.62s are tough, but luck favors the prepared...

  14. #14
    Boolit Master wilecoyote's Avatar
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    at the time I had shortened a lee .308 die in half, removing the lower bevel as well. I was using a lowered shell holder. I inserted the die from inside the press by screwing it upwards. lot of lube, of course. if I had first learned everything I read here now, I would not have gone mad with my attempts, which still worked. at least I know I wasn't the only one.
    thank you all for the valuable insights
    Food is overrated. A nice rifle is way more important.
    Rob

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA's sizing dies are set for my ~60 year olde Hollywood Senior press.

    Last few years, have been running all "range brass" thru a
    Lee Classic Cast Press 90998 purchased just for this purpose.
    (Use a 0.005 inch shim to get same head space as the Hollywood.)
    Use a looong 5/8 inch steel bar handle for EZ use.....

    With STP Oil Treatment or TriFlow Synthetic grease (case lube) and
    RCBS small base dies, cases get squished back to proper dimensions
    with little effort.....

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub hunter49's Avatar
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    I have had great success with the RCBS SMALL BASE TAPER CRIMP DIE SET - AR SERIES. I also use case gauges and using the small base sizer die resolved my chambering issues in my bolt and semi autos. I prefer to do my seating and crimping separately. https://www.rcbs.com/dies-and-shell-...eries/780.html
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - "Thomas Jefferson"

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    It would be unusual today to find any GI surplus 7.62 that was not fired in a machine gun.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich/WIS View Post
    It would be unusual today to find any GI surplus 7.62 that was not fired in a machine gun.
    This is true; but the headspace and chamber dimensions can be "In Tolerence"; but vary widely between individual Machine Guns. I would not hesitate to buy surplus 7.62x51 brass as available today; but I would be prepared to check for an excessive base size after sizing all the brass I acquired. Additionally; there are multiple builders of M1a's out there as well as bolt/AR style firearms that result in "Range Pick Up" brass. I found a few Winchester, RP, and FC headstands with bases too wide to chamber after resizing the brass. I suspect that one or more of those M1a's, Bolt, AR guns in .308/7.62x51 had chambers that were at Max or over spec size - coupled with "Hot Loads" in the rifles. Use of a ".308 Small Base Die failed to correct the problem; which is why I used the .470 NOE push through sizer to reduce the bases on these problem cases.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I got 1k pcs of MG fired 308 LC, use a rcbs (plain) 308W die and no problems. Lube good, all the way to the base. Run it through twice (wait a while before withdrawing), rotating 90 deg. Springback of the hard brass is the problem. I use a Lee classic cast single stage press.
    Whatever!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GONRA View Post
    With STP Oil Treatment or TriFlow Synthetic grease (case lube) and
    RCBS small base dies, cases get squished back to proper dimensions
    with little effort.....
    Exactly. This gets agonized over quite often on the web but, fact is, machine guns really don't destroy cases.

    Any good case lube - properly applied - will let the weakest modern iron press push any proper fired case fully into a small base sizer. (Meaning that no matter the lube or press, and no matter what they were fired in, we can't easily push 7.62 cases into any brand of SB 5.56 sizer so don't even try it! )

    Your STP oil additive is too messy for me to like handling very much but, under any reloading brand's label, it's a very good case lube. And, under its own label, it's fairly inexpensive and quite easy to find too.

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