New Century Hand Ejector

[StrawHat]

Case length was .918 to .923 and the COAL was1.30 and the rim was thinner than .45 S&W, more like the .455 Eley............

Thank you. I was not aware of the thinner rim. I will not be counterboring the cylinder but it is still good information to have so I can set the cylinder in correctly.

Kevin

[ddixie884]

If you use the .45 Cowboy spl or the .45 AR you will be close to the same ctg except the cases will have less capacity as they are solid head. A .45 S&W trimmed to .920 would be close also. Finding a cylinder with less than .065 or so headspace would be hard to find.

[StrawHat]

I had planned to ship the cylinder to a fellow on another forum. My business got in the way and he will be hunting until November! A bit envious of that last but not much. So this project is back on hold for a while.

I am rather excited though. A New Century in what is easily the least common cartridge for which it was chambered! Yes, a replica, but given the scarcity of originals, at least a partial fulfillment of my dream.

Kevin

[9.3X62AL]

Gotta make yourself happy in this life. Go for it!

The closest I got to anything like this was a Colt New Service in decent shape chambered in 455 Eley. This was circa 2002 IIRC, and toward the end of my Weird Caliber Preferences Period. Price was fair, but ANOTHER "project" to create ammo for did not appeal, with the concurrent adaptation of the 9.3 x 62 Mauser to American componentry keeping the dull times to a minimum. I might feel differently today, retired and less distracted by kids and bills.

[Green Frog]

I had planned to ship the cylinder to a fellow on another forum. My business got in the way and he will be hunting until November! A bit envious of that last but not much. So this project is back on hold for a while.

I am rather excited though. A New Century in what is easily the least common cartridge for which it was chambered! Yes, a replica, but given the scarcity of originals, at least a partial fulfillment of my dream.

Kevin

Kevin,

A gun can only be original once, and that train left the station long ago. That TL is a perfect candidate for “creative recreation” of the historic gun of your choice. I’m enjoying following your progress.

Froggie

[dangt]

I found this thread a little late to comment. I'm pretty certain that the triple lock revolvers, the New Century's, had a different dimension of bore center to cylinder axis center than later N-framed revolvers. I cannot remember if that was true of the .455 chambered guns sent to the British. That dimension needs to be measured on your gun's original cylinder when someone re-chambers the 38 Special cylinder that you intend to use.

Maybe some Smith & Wesson collector/gunsmith can chime in here to confirm what I'm remembering about Triple Lock cylinder dimensions but it will be safest to have chamber centers to axis center measured before cutting your replacement cylinder.

I have a .455 Triple Lock and can measure mine as well as 1917's and Heavy Duties, but that would not be the same as measuring your individual gun.

[dangt]

The source that first brought up the differing dimensions I wrote about above is in _Smith &Wesson, 1857 - 1945_, by Roy Jinks and Robert Neal. There it is stated that the distance from chamber centers to cylinder axis center was increased .010" on the S&W .455 Second Model. I dont think I've read about it anywhere else , including on the Smith-Wesson Forum where I did read the OP's query about this cylinder question.

I have measured various cylinders in the past but today got out my .455 Triple Lock and a 38-44 Heavy Duty to measure again with an instrument that I did not have years ago, a "Center-Mic", that is a non-digital caliper-like instrument that measures center to center distance between two holes. Accuracy for this particular tool is only to the nearest .001". The easiest way to measure chamber hole center to cylinder axis hole center is to measure distance between two opposing chambers and divide by two, assuming the axis center is accurately centered.

On the two revolvers just mentioned I got for the .455 Triple Lock: 0.534" to 0.535"
and for the Heavy Duty: 0.544"

Years ago, after reading in the Neal and Jinks book, I measured chamber center positions on Triple Lock 44 Spec., 1917, .455 Second Model, and 1917 Brazilian. I found the measurements on these guns also agreed with Neal and Jinks in that from the .455 Second Model onward, the N-frames had the increased dimension ( chamber center to axis center).

If the 38 Special cylinder you have and your original .455 cylinder differ in a similar way and amount, the 38 cylinder could be first bored on a milling machine to correct the chamber center placement before being reamed to .45 Special (rather than just reaming the 38 chambers where they are now). A gunsmith who was a real machinist could do this.

[StrawHat]

…

On the two revolvers just mentioned I got for the .455 Triple Lock: 0.534" to 0.535"
and for the Heavy Duty: 0.544"...

Can you measure the OD of the two cylinders?

Thank you.

Kevin

[dangt]

I did measure the O.D. of the TL and the HD cylinders. They were the same.

1.704" measured at the rear.

[Nueces]

The source that first brought up the differing dimensions I wrote about above is in _Smith &Wesson, 1857 - 1945_, by Roy Jinks and Robert Neal. There it is stated that the distance from chamber centers to cylinder axis center was increased .010" on the S&W .455 Second Model. I dont think I've read about it anywhere else , including on the Smith-Wesson Forum where I did read the OP's query about this cylinder question.

Very nice scholarship, a fine contribution to this board.

[StrawHat]

The source that first brought up the differing dimensions I wrote about above is in _Smith &Wesson, 1857 - 1945_, by Roy Jinks and Robert Neal. There it is stated that the distance from chamber centers to cylinder axis center was increased .010" on the S&W .455 Second Model. I dont think I've read about it anywhere else , including on the Smith-Wesson Forum where I did read the OP's query about this cylinder question.

I have measured various cylinders in the past but today got out my .455 Triple Lock and a 38-44 Heavy Duty to measure again with an instrument that I did not have years ago, a "Center-Mic", that is a non-digital caliper-like instrument that measures center to center distance between two holes. Accuracy for this particular tool is only to the nearest .001". The easiest way to measure chamber hole center to cylinder axis hole center is to measure distance between two opposing chambers and divide by two, assuming the axis center is accurately centered.

On the two revolvers just mentioned I got for the .455 Triple Lock: 0.534" to 0.535"
and for the Heavy Duty: 0.544"

Years ago, after reading in the Neal and Jinks book, I measured chamber center positions on Triple Lock 44 Spec., 1917, .455 Second Model, and 1917 Brazilian. I found the measurements on these guns also agreed with Neal and Jinks in that from the .455 Second Model onward, the N-frames had the increased dimension ( chamber center to axis center).

If the 38 Special cylinder you have and your original .455 cylinder differ in a similar way and amount, the 38 cylinder could be first bored on a milling machine to correct the chamber center placement before being reamed to .45 Special (rather than just reaming the 38 chambers where they are now). A gunsmith who was a real machinist could do this.

If I am understanding this, you are suggesting that simply rechambering a 38 S&W Special cylinder from a 38/44 HD may result in an offset situation between the barrel bore and cylinder throat.

I WILL take that under advisement. However, all barrel threads on the N frame revolvers are the same, to the best of my knowledge. Barrels are usually cut with the bore centered in the barrel, shank and muzzle, it is the easiest way to make them. This determines where the chambers need to be in relation to the ejector rod (think axle). To my mind, it would be easiest to cut the chambers centered on the same dimension from the ejector, axle, centerline.

As I said, I will be measuring this. I intend this to be a shooter and I want ALL of the bullet to exit the muzzle, not just most of it!

Kevin

[dangt]

I have never known anyone to use a later N-frame barrel on a Triple Lock, nor use a TL barrel on a later N-frame. I am not sure anyone besides the late Dave Chicoine would be familiar with this dimensional frame and cylinder change, however, there must be some other living gunsmith who has run into it and dealt with it.

Your own .455 TL is earlier than mine ( #4010) but probably by only a few months. It is most likely the dimensions of the two guns are the same. You have the right idea, though, to carefully measure your two cylinders that you have in hand. If you find what I expect you will find, again, a machinist can change the chamber hole positions since you have plenty of material around the .38 chambers. Then you will only have the center pin difference of the TL design to deal with.