Choice of Revolver against Grizzly Bear attack.

[Lloyd Smale]

I understand what you're saying, and agree with some. But, getting the perfect situation to be able to defend ones self, comes as a small percentage of what probably will happen if attacked by either predator or human attacker. I'm sure that the guide I wrote about would have really appreciated coming up on his grizzly, without the bear noticing him at all and standing broad side to provide the perfect breakdown shot. Didn't happen. So, I guess my bottom line is, it probably wouldn't matter what handgun that bear was shot with. If the bear took a solid frontal hit with a 338 round, I don't believe the same hit from a 480, would have had any different outcome.
Anyway, I'll really try my best to not ever put myself in any scenario with a big mad predator. That way I won't ever have to worry about it. Thanks for the friendly "verbal jousting"
Regards

Id guess the outcome would have been a bit different. bear might have lived another 60 seconds. Plenty of time to insure that guide was dead.

[Lloyd Smale]

Living in your neck of the woods you are quite familiar with bears as am I in my part of New England. In 50yrs or so of easing through the woods I've seen exactly 1 bear and that one was within 20ft while I was sitting on a stump deer hunting. Your comment about lightening is spot on. My woods carry handgun is either my Ruger Single Six or a SW 38/357. Wife carries a Chiefs Special when berrying and we both rely on keeping our heads up and paying attention.

yup id say 99.9 percent of the bear you see around here will only let you look at there buts running away. When i walk my dog my bear stopper is a lcp ruger. Mosty for the two legged tourist that invade this area and even camp on private land. Secondly for wolves. A wolf is territorial and will go after a dog invading there territory where a bear will look for the next county when he sees one. 15 years ago when we had no wolves i didnt even bother carrying a gun. Yes black bear arent the same as griz and browns. with them you might only see the but running away 98 percent of the time. Sure would make it great for someone who paid his 10k to hunt one if bears really hunted man. Id bet guides get a good chuckle out of guys showing up with there back up 500 smith in a chest holster. About the same as the guy who shows up to the range with his ar15 wearing full camos, even a headband spouting off about he cant wait till russia attacks. WALTER MIDDY. I sometimes wish bears would attack. 3/4s of the people out hiking are liberal new green deal types anyway.

[Three44s]

Fortunately we live in a country that allows us to pack heat in most parts of it.

We are even allowed to chose an LCR as our “bear stopper” but not on my account.

I was basically dragged into large bore revolvers. I was raised by a father that had no use for handguns and thought the same way myself for years. But the grizzly bear that wandered in to our cattle range caused me to set about a deep search for a solution that could save my life if the worst happened.

Thanks to handloading (and casting) I brought myself through a complete reversal in regards to what handguns large and powerful were capable of in the hands of willing folks. I do not count my skill as anything exceptional, but I did task myself to an above average degree of practice and living on a ranch certainly had exceptional access to my “Lead Bank”......... and it paid off!

While there are those who practice with full power loads, I did only to a point. I load several power levels from just above factory .44 Special levels all the way to Max.

Those who continue to swoon over how they would defend themselves in the parameters of this thread, that of working from the ground (alone) with their hands to instantly go into defense mode against a grizzly bear with their long gun slung over their back?

I have lost count of how many real world attacks by bears that has been reported and not just grizzlies, where the bear was a few feet or less away from the victim before they knew it was even nearby and the next second, the bear has that target pinned on the ground.

The victim has a (often) difficult time accessing their handgun, much less a long gun slung over their back.

Importantly, these accounts were often woods wise folks out hiking and watching out for danger, not working and focusing as much for a bear they may have wandered in to.

So like I repeat, go with your LCR’s or your long gun’s or your bear spray and I (and others) will do it our/my way.

Three44s

[44MAG#1]

" So like I repeat, go with your LCR’s or your long gun’s or your bear spray and I (and others) will do it our/my way. " ]

Kinda like the "Handgun Stopping Power" thread. Everyone does it their way.

[Graybeard96]

Was wondering if there is any particular load you are carrying or have to carry...

Don't have them in .44 Magnum but do have two of the above mentioned guns in .41 Magnum...the S&W Mountain Gun and Ruger Redhawk 4.2"...both are great shooters. If you are using reasonable .44 Magnum loads the Mountain Gun is great as it has nice balance and a lot of different grip options.

The Redhawk is definitely the tougher of the two but at a cost of weight and balance. It also has far less grip options...but will run 300 grain bear loads all day long.

Pair of Mountain Guns...

Attachment 287598

Thanks for asking,
They way the Rules are in my parts. One has to qualify under Supervision by a specially licensed Examiner. The Shooter has to put 6 Rounds into a 9" Radius at 5 Meters, 10 Meters and 15 Meters. Each one in 18 Seconds. The Shells must be the same Load then the Shooter will use in the Bush which in my case is full Power Loads pushing a 240 Grain Lead GC Slug. Gun must be carried on Belt, no cross Draw or Shoulder Holster allowed. Gun must be secured in the Holster by 2 separate Buttons. If a shot is fired in the Bush, it must be reported asap and investigation begins. While I am maintaining Trails I am usually by myself, next Person probably at least 60 miles away.

Thanks

[Graybeard96]

You mention the shells being cumbersome to eject, unlike a colt. What you mean is, the chambers don’t line up with the ejection port automatically? One solution to this problem, is installing a free spin pawl, either a modified original or a purchased one. This allows the cylinder to turn independently of the “clicks” on the ratchet. It can turn backwards or forwards when unloading and never goes past the chamber too far to load. It also doesn’t line up perfectly at the ejection port on a click like a colt.

The ejector rod housing flying off after some use is a common occurrence with full power loads on single actions. A gunsmith can remove the screw and replace the stud. One option is to have a barrel installed with a recoil lug that keeps this from happening. I’m not sure if your barrel can be modified in this manner or if it requires a new barrel.

My point I spose, since you’ve seemed to have found a solution, is don’t rule out repairing and modifying your existing gun. Your existing gun has one thing going for it, familiarity.

Thank you for your contribution. Meanwhile I managed to get the broken portion of the Stud out and awaiting replacement Studs. I am also considering Gluing the Ejector Housing onto the Barrel in addition to the new Stud Locktited in.

Today I talked to a Gunsmith regarding the "Pawl" you mention. Unfortunately he does not have any information/Supplier on that. If you still have that Information please share it with us and/or send me a PM. Thank you very much in advance.

K.

[littlejack]

Greybeard96
I know exactly what you're talking about, with the empty cases being cumbersome to eject. I have a SBH Hunter in .41 Magnum, that is one of my range toys. After opening the loading gate and rotating the cylinder to the audible click, the chamber has rotated to far and is not lined up with the ejector rod. As you know, the cylinder will no back up. So, you have to rotate the cylinder another 360° to get back to that particular chamber. Mine is scoped, so that adds to it being awkward lying in my right hand, and using the ejector rod to push out the empties with my left. I never had any issues of that sort with my first Ruger BH. In the hypothetical situation you're contemplating that "may" happen, I think reloading is going to be the least of your worries. Not trying to underplay, or make lite of your situation, but just trying to be realistic.
Good luck with your endeavor.

[echo154]

I gotta say...a lot of my female friends ask me about what handgun to get........to most I say bear spray....most will use rather than trying to shoot some intruder who ends up taking the gun. I also recommend the books "On Killing and On Combat by Lt. Col. Grossman! Most people are willing to use non-lethal than lethal. I was a cop for 30 years and never hesitated in the use of lethal force as apposed to me dying. In the shootist, John Wayne, stated it wasn't a matter of "willingness" to kill that caused a man to die, rather hesitation. I wholeheartedly agree. As for the pepper spray "FOR BEARS".....I hold them in higher esteem than street thugs, it is a great easily accessible option. I've used it on dogs and hogs to great effect. My choice is based on the ability to carry in areas where handguns are not allowed. I do not recommend the spray as the only defense, where allowed I would prefer a 45-70 marlin or 12 ga with slugs and a 44 mag as the starting point(brownies) or 45 colt at Ruger velocities

[robertbank]

Greybeard96not to nit pick while the holster must be worn on the belt the retention requirement is not two buttons. It is "holster means a holster that can be worn on a belt or attached to a body and that is equipped with a fastening device that can securely hold a firearm". A flap or strap meets this requirement. You must use the ammunition you intend to carry with you in the bush.

For BC A total of 18 rds are fired at an 18" diameter circle (9" Radius) at 5m 10 and 15 meters. You must score a minimum of 15 rds out of 18 on each target. Each target is shot in two strings. The first is 6 rds in 20 seconds freestyle. The 2nd string is 6 rds, reload and 6 rounds in 20 seconds freestyle. This is repeated on each target. The test is really not that difficult if you have any experience with a handgun.

That is the test. There are companies in BC who charge up to $500. Their courses should bring a casual shooter up to the Provincial requirement. For those who are experienced shooters there are a couple of us who will do the testing for a small fee to cover our time and incidental expenses.

Demand is not all that great. Over the past 20 years I have had five individuals request the testing either for their initial test or to requalify. The permit is either for one or two years depending on the fee paid ($40. per annum) to the government.

Minimum caliber is .357mag.

Testing may be different in your area. The holster requirement should be the same.

With the Grizzly Bear hunt now cancelled in BC I suspect you will see more cases of bear incidents and bear encounters. Black Bears are timid and usually don't want anything to do with humans. Introduce a female with a cub in tow and things sometimes can get interesting so too and old hungry bear. Grizzlies as you know can be indifferent or aggressive at their pleasure. My son carries bear spray when he hikes our trails.

Take Care

Bob

[Three44s]

My revolvers cost too much for me to let a bear take them away and bear spray moves with the wind, I do not want the risk of an uncooperative breeze.

I am glad I deal in lead!

Three44s

[Three44s]

“For BC A total of 18 rds are fired at an 18" diameter circle (9" Radius) at 5m 10 and 15 meters. You must score a minimum of 15 rds out of 18 on each target. Each target is shot in two strings. The first is 6 rds in 20 seconds freestyle. The 2nd string is 6 rds, reload and 6 rounds in 20 seconds freestyle. This is repeated on each target. The test is really not that difficult if you have any experience with a handgun.”

I must say if you can not shoot that well, you better stay home!

Thanks for posting that!

Three44s

[robertbank]

“For BC A total of 18 rds are fired at an 18" diameter circle (9" Radius) at 5m 10 and 15 meters. You must score a minimum of 15 rds out of 18 on each target. Each target is shot in two strings. The first is 6 rds in 20 seconds freestyle. The 2nd string is 6 rds, reload and 6 rounds in 20 seconds freestyle. This is repeated on each target. The test is really not that difficult if you have any experience with a handgun.”

I must say if you can not shoot that well, you better stay home!

Thanks for posting that!

Three44s

Hey designed by a civil servant who had enough sense not to make it a bullseye contest. The joke is there are companies up here who charge $500 for a course to get you the permit and folks that pay the fee.

Take Care

Bob

[Graybeard96]

Hey designed by a civil servant who had enough sense not to make it a bullseye contest. The joke is there are companies up here who charge $500 for a course to get you the permit and folks that pay the fee.

Take Care

Bob

As you know passing the Shooting test is just part of the Deal. No less important is getting your "Application to carry Questionnaire Remote Wilderness Areas) approved by the CFO for BC and Yukon. Therefore anyone thinking of taking the shooting test and/or wanting to enroll in a shooting test to qualify is well advised to get the Paperwork from the CFO Office beforehand so he can assess if he even has a chance to qualify.

Cheers

[jgt]

I once lived in the north west U.S. I backpacked and hunted in areas with grizzly bear population. I was always afraid of having to defend myself from one. I chose a 44 magnum because that was what I shot. I can not shoot magnum loads day in and day out all the time without causing damage to my wrists and elbows. The way I addressed the issue was to buy a Redhawk. I sent it to Bowen Custom Arms to go through and make sure every thing was as it should be. He installed a Douglas barrel and Dan Wesson shroud. He also slightly rounded the butt. When the gun was right, I turned to the cartridge. I was not trying to impress anyone with the speed I could get because I could not handle a load that was maxed out well enough to have any hope of multiple hits. It had to be something I could hit with and hopefully get back on target within a reasonable amount of time. I went to NEI and they made me a bullet mold that was a Keith-style bullet that weighed 379 grains when cast of acww with gas check and bullet lube. I used the slowest burning powder I could get to work in the cartridge and at that time it was 680. A bullet that heavy was much longer than a 240 grain so took up more room in the case. That gave me limiting factors. One, there was not enough room to overload that powder. That also meant the recoil was not so severe that I developed a flinch or experienced pain from shooting the load. To test my theory I tried it on a log laid down around a parking area in the national forest. The log was about 36 inches across. I shot it through the middle to see how deep the bullet would penetrate. The bullet came out the other side and went into a pile of gravel left over from paving the parking area. It went in about 18". When I dug it out, it had some nose distortion but the rest of the bullet could have been reloaded and used again. That was what I chose to carry to protect myself from bear. It was not the fastest load or the one with the most recoil, but it would penetrate like no other I had at the time. Sort of like an engine on a freight train running into a tractor trailer. I had the confidence that load would be able to break shoulders or the spine if I got that lucky. Mainly I just prayed I never had to use it. I didn't. I still have the mold. I live in Texas now and use the bullets to fire lap barrels these days.
Looking back, my advice would be to take the gun you choose to a good gunsmith and tell him to go through it an correct anything that needs it, as it has to protect your life. That will give you a tool you can count on. Then develop a load with the heaviest bullet you can handle without sacrificing accuracy. That lets the bullet help do the job. It is not always the fastest load that gets the job done. It is a combination of energy at the right speed that does the job. Last, but not least, don't forget this is a tool for your job, so you can deduct the cost from your income tax as a business expense so don't skimp on the gunsmith. Get the best you can afford. Good luck.

[robertbank]

As you know passing the Shooting test is just part of the Deal. No less important is getting your "Application to carry Questionnaire Remote Wilderness Areas) approved by the CFO for BC and Yukon. Therefore anyone thinking of taking the shooting test and/or wanting to enroll in a shooting test to qualify is well advised to get the Paperwork from the CFO Office beforehand so he can assess if he even has a chance to qualify.

Cheers

Exactly. Aside from corporate applications, the ones I have been involved with here in BC have been guys with "Free Miners Licenses" available at your local BC Services, one trapper where you need a BC Trap Line, and one fellow who flew a Cessna 180/Super Cub for a guiding outfit out of the Yukon.

About five years ago we ran into bureaucratic nonsense over the requirement for a Workman's Compensation number and business license for the Free Miners which ended when we pointed out to the CFO neither were applicable or obtainable or needed to get a Free Miners License. For individuals those examples pretty much covers the acceptable reasons the CFO will accept outside of wilderness Guides, individuals whose job is located in remote areas. It is not just a case of turning up for a course and getting a permit. There has to be some semblance of need for the permit.

I have not run into any cases where the individual was either new to handguns or not proficient with them.

Take Care

Bob

[LeonardC]

That's an interesting gun; Ruger Redhawk with a Dan Wesson shroud.

[jgt]

It was easy to clean. I just took it down with a Dan Wesson barrel tool and cleaned it from the breach end. I could also set the barrel/cylinder gap to any space I wanted. I have a Freedom Arms 44 and it has too close a gap to do much shooting before it starts to drag. It is fine for hunting. The gap has little effect on accuracy only on velocity. Bowen uses Anaconda barrels now days, but back then he could easily get the shrouds and made barrels from Douglas blanks. I liked being able to interchange the front sights also. I thought I would like the McGivern bead, but the white insert sight became my favorite. I gave the gun to my nephew, He tells me how much he loves it nearly every time we talk.

[echo154]

Lloyd, I hike Quite often and fish in bear country. I think your inference to "hikers" being disposable is offensive. I, as well as a great many I know, love hiking, this country....the beliefs of our Founding Fathers. I was a cop for 30 years, support CCW, as well as the NRA. I also support Towers To Tunnels as well as Wounded Warriors. I do not like Liberals as well as a host with like beliefs...but do not wish them harm...rather enlightenment to the real world>

[Graybeard96]

I once lived in the north west U.S. I backpacked and hunted in areas with grizzly bear population. I was always afraid of having to defend myself from one. I chose a 44 magnum because that was what I shot. I can not shoot magnum loads day in and day out all the time without causing damage to my wrists and elbows. The way I addressed the issue was to buy a Redhawk. I sent it to Bowen Custom Arms to go through and make sure every thing was as it should be. He installed a Douglas barrel and Dan Wesson shroud. He also slightly rounded the butt. When the gun was right, I turned to the cartridge. I was not trying to impress anyone with the speed I could get because I could not handle a load that was maxed out well enough to have any hope of multiple hits. It had to be something I could hit with and hopefully get back on target within a reasonable amount of time. I went to NEI and they made me a bullet mold that was a Keith-style bullet that weighed 379 grains when cast of acww with gas check and bullet lube. I used the slowest burning powder I could get to work in the cartridge and at that time it was 680. A bullet that heavy was much longer than a 240 grain so took up more room in the case. That gave me limiting factors. One, there was not enough room to overload that powder. That also meant the recoil was not so severe that I developed a flinch or experienced pain from shooting the load. To test my theory I tried it on a log laid down around a parking area in the national forest. The log was about 36 inches across. I shot it through the middle to see how deep the bullet would penetrate. The bullet came out the other side and went into a pile of gravel left over from paving the parking area. It went in about 18". When I dug it out, it had some nose distortion but the rest of the bullet could have been reloaded and used again. That was what I chose to carry to protect myself from bear. It was not the fastest load or the one with the most recoil, but it would penetrate like no other I had at the time. Sort of like an engine on a freight train running into a tractor trailer. I had the confidence that load would be able to break shoulders or the spine if I got that lucky. Mainly I just prayed I never had to use it. I didn't. I still have the mold. I live in Texas now and use the bullets to fire lap barrels these days.
Looking back, my advice would be to take the gun you choose to a good gunsmith and tell him to go through it an correct anything that needs it, as it has to protect your life. That will give you a tool you can count on. Then develop a load with the heaviest bullet you can handle without sacrificing accuracy. That lets the bullet help do the job. It is not always the fastest load that gets the job done. It is a combination of energy at the right speed that does the job. Last, but not least, don't forget this is a tool for your job, so you can deduct the cost from your income tax as a business expense so don't skimp on the gunsmith. Get the best you can afford. Good luck.

Based on my experience, the most important thing when Dealing with a Grizzly is (A) Never run, (B) be ready to shoot, (C) Keep your Nerve. The last thing I want to do is shoot a Bear unless absolutely necessary because it would trigger a Investigation nightmare. To do all this in a high stress situation you have to be psychologically prepared. A production Revolver in a sufficient Caliber from a reputable Manufacturer should do I trust.

Cheers

[jonp]

Ive spent time cruising timber out west but never met a grizzly and hope to never encounter one up close and personal. Ive read with interest people who travel in areas like that and their carry. Quite a few make a compelling case for a 10mm full size mostly on the grounds of slinging as much lead as fast as possible hoping for the best results as reloading is a pipe dream and under that adrenaline rush plus the speed of a bear your going to miss some so aim center and pull till the click at which point you will know if your going to live or not. Peoplevthat talk about aiming for the brainpan or shooting off the left toes then moving right when it stumbles left are plain idiots. Anyone who has shot during stress, not a moving paper target but real stress know how stupid that talk is. Under a high stress situation its all training and muscle memory and outside the military few put enough downrange to build that memory.

Biggest thing is not to wait until the charge but have it in your hand ready to go. Your not Bob Meyers so clearing leather in a charge is not something to plan on.

For me, a Ruger Redhawk or Blackhawk 45lc using 265 or 300gr hardcast loaded to the gills with Linebaugh loads is where I will hang my hat and hope to live to post the tale