Choice of Revolver against Grizzly Bear attack.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Never shot anything close to 500 lbs. with anything.

And yes, I should have mentioned the 13# trigger return spring was in my Smith's.

[RJM52]

A rifle/shotgun may be fine while one is moving but once stopped in camp you going to be able to keep it within arms reach all the time?

Handgun wise, you don't need a cannon. From all the reports I have read anything north of 10mm works...and a lot of people have used 9mm and .357...

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/upd...-97-effective/

[memtb]

theres this cool new invention called a sling. Funny how some will say a rifle is inconvenient yet recommend a bfr, super redhawk or a 500 smith that weights near as much as a light weight bolt or something like a guide gun and even put it in some chest holster thats no faster to get the gun into action as that rifle with a sling. . Some will say that every game animal in the world has been killed by a 44 mag. I wont argue that but thats hunting. Not facing a charging 800 lb brown bear. Maybe im off base and wrong here. Lets see. Raise your hand if youve shot ANYTHING over even 500lbs with a handgun. Lets keep it to while you were awake.

I believe the text of this topic was best firearm when preoccupied with work or other activities. Carrying a slung rifle or shotgun while doing manual labor is pretty darn difficult to do. Weight is almost a non-issue.... a properly fitted holster keeps the handgun firmly against the body in an easily accessible position......while still allowing the user to accomplish camp tasks or other activities.

Animal over 500 pounds......yes (guessing around 1000) though I “muffed” the shot and took the animal on the next ridge with a rifle.




That was 1989, and my last attempt on a big game animal with a handgun. I was so disappointed with myself in my “screw-up”, I quit handgun hunting until very recently. Prior to the failed moose hunt, I had taken an antelope and a bear in a 3 year period. I could have taken several mule deer and elk, but wanted a trophy.....so passed on many does, cows, and lesser bucks! memtb

[Lloyd Smale]

they make pistol grip shotguns that are just as easy to have slug around your neck as some of the huge revolvers some here recommend. Your not to bright if you set up camp in griz or brown bear territory and your all alone. Again a hand raise of those who have! If i can carry a rifle all day long i sure can haul it to the bathroom with me. Believe me if i was alone in bear country (which i never would be) id never let go of my rifle except to cook and wipe my but and it would be withing grasp even doing that. Bottom line is your more apt to be struck by lightning then being attacked by a non wounded bear. Walter middy crap. I know if i was looking for advice it wouldnt be on an internet fourm with people that just talk the talk. Id ask people that actually killed big animals and not from someone who was told by someone who heard son guide on the internet giving advice that is most likely embellishing the story anyway. Add to that GETTING AWAY with killing a charging bear with something like a 10mm sure doesnt make it an intellegent thing to carry. Its more like being hungry and taking your last 5 dollars to the casino to see if you can make enough for a steak. Chances are your going to loose. Fact is most of you are going to miss. Talking about this is like some guys telling storys about how theyd do in combat that never even spent time in the service. Been on this forum since it started over 20 years ago. In that time nobody ive heard of has even had to face down a charging black bear. Same walter middys who want to think there brave because they walk in the woods where black bear live. Ive watched my ma shoe them off the back porch with a broom.

[memtb]

they make pistol grip shotguns that are just as easy to have slug around your neck as some of the huge revolvers some here recommend. Your not to bright if you set up camp in griz or brown bear territory and your all alone. Again a hand raise of those who have! If i can carry a rifle all day long i sure can haul it to the bathroom with me. Believe me if i was alone in bear country (which i never would be) id never let go of my rifle except to cook and wipe my but and it would be withing grasp even doing that. Bottom line is your more apt to be struck by lightning then being attacked by a non wounded bear. Walter middy crap. I know if i was looking for advice it wouldnt be on an internet fourm with people that just talk the talk. Id ask people that actually killed big animals and not from someone who was told by someone who heard son guide on the internet giving advice that is most likely embellishing the story anyway. Add to that GETTING AWAY with killing a charging bear with something like a 10mm sure doesnt make it an intellegent thing to carry. Its more like being hungry and taking your last 5 dollars to the casino to see if you can make enough for a steak. Chances are your going to loose. Fact is most of you are going to miss. Talking about this is like some guys telling storys about how theyd do in combat that never even spent time in the service. Been on this forum since it started over 20 years ago. In that time nobody ive heard of has even had to face down a charging black bear. Same walter middys who want to think there brave because they walk in the woods where black bear live. Ive watched my ma shoe them off the back porch with a broom.

I have both.....the “huge” revolver to which you refer and a slung, pistol grip Winchester Defender shotgun. The holstered handgun is much more practical and comfortable to work with than would be the shotgun. My X Frame is for hunting (8 3/8” barrel) not for a defense firearm. If I were choosing a handgun for defense use, it would 5” or less barrel length for much better portability, comfort and practicality, but the X Frame would still be high on the list of potential handguns! memtb

[robertbank]

LLoyd if your guide comment was aimed at me I should point out I have tested said guide for his wilderness Permit on two occasions. I know of nobody up here who would suggest a pistol grip shotgun. Have you ever tried to use one, under stress accurately. I didn't think so.

BC Forest personnel carry Remingtoin 12 gauge with slugs and Bear Spray. The shotigun because it can be fired faster than a bolt gun under most circumstances. They must qualify with their shotguns annually and the locals do so on our range. One of the targets is a motorized charging bear target. Personally I have less faith in the bear spray than I do with my ability with a handgun but not everyone up here shoots handguns. If the folks who I know who have Wilderness Permits for work take the test with a 44 Mag (629 4.2"). One bush pilot I tested before he died used a 460 S&W 5" with a comp. He used his to kill a Grizzly in the Yukon that had become a "Camp Bear". One shot in the head at about 15 yards. He carried the revolver in a belt rig to qualify (rules), but used a chest rig when flying I "suspect". (Cdn for "know"). One fellow last year used a Ruger Redhawk in 44mag. Notice they are all stainless guns.

These threads are interesting and for most here I suspect academic. US Citizens wont be carrying a handgun in BC or the Yukon under any circumstance but most or what is mentioned here would apply to the Western States and Alaska.

Take Care

Bob
ps I getting to the point where mobility is an issue so I don't spend a lot of time walking trails and hiking around my fishing spots anymore. I do qualify for my Wilderness Permit still just because I can. I do some testing when called upon. (Two to three a year).

[murf205]

I am a fan of the rifle myself for the power and final word it puts on a situation like a bear attack but if you can split firewood whith one slung over your shoulder without having it beat the bejesus out of you or sliding off, I've got to see it. If you want dry clothes, you have to have wood for our stove. Bear spray- good to have but if the wind is blowing you might get a face full and the bears have no time out whistle! A neighbor was going the the mailbox a few yrs ago and a bear bit him pretty good while just walking down a dirt (what else) road. Probably a sow with cubs close by. He now carries a Ruger SBH 44 to get the mail. Bottom line is make noise and you Probably.... wont have a problem but it does happen. Practice Practice Practice with whatever you wag around so muscle memory takes over when the SHTF!

[robertbank]

I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point here, but any make of firearm abused/neglected in that fashion would look the same. There's simply no excuse for that. Curious as to who's paying for these pistols that he manages to destroy on an annual basis. If he worked for me and treated my tools like that I'd fire him.

I wish we al lived and worked in the sasme environment bit we don't. The guide in question is responsible for his guests, running up fjords in high speed supply boats sitting for hours in damp rainy conditions waiting for the elusive prey. Frankly he doesn't have time to sit down in his den in the evening and meticulously take Q tips to his favourite blaster. Coming off a 16KN run up or down a salt water fjord he might have time to rinse his Glock out in a fresh water stream before seeing to his guests creature comforts. That is his reality, I doubt yours so yes there is an excuse for not taking apart his gun nightly. We akk know stainless guns will rust ovfer time. Not as quickly as carbon steel but they will corrode. I am not at all sure why Glock does not offer it's slides with stainless steel slides. I posted the picture to illustrate the fact the Glock is not as indestructible as some would believe. The gun in question looks bad but it was functionable and it was replaced at the end of the season. I do know he was looking at the Ruger GP-100 in 10MM as a possible replacement to the Glock. Not sure uf he made the move or just accepted the fact the life expectancy of his handgun would be one season on the north coast.

Take Care

Bob

[Larry Gibson]

Last i was in Alaska I was conducting training for the Strykers at Fort Greely and Wainwright using ethnic role players. Much of this was conducted out in the field training areas where moose and Grizz are also. As the managers we had vicariously liability to protect the role players. I wore a 4" Colt Anaconda 44 Magnum and sometimes carried my M70 three six bits also but mostly it was in the support van which was always close by. One training session was during moose season and the bullets were rutting and fighting. Came within 25 yards of several who were standing their ground but was able to back off without incident. Saw a couple grizz one morning out across the river bed in the impact area. Saw quite bit of fresh sign initially in the training area but with the noise the Stryker vehicles make along with the gunfire and explosion's of the action most of the moose and any grizz moved out of the training area. Still, I always wore the Colt.

Carried hard cast 429244s over 23 gr H110 which pushed at 1200 fps.

Attachment 287678

[littlejack]

Thre44s
Seems to me that a lot of your reply to my post, applies to both handgun stopping power on two legged attackers, and big four legged bears. You stated, that there were to many variables against defending against a person. Now, I have never went up against neither a human, or any dangerous game, including any bear. I absolutely would not want to go up against a big bear at all, no matter what I was carrying. To many variables, right. Including the fact that I would first be fertilizing the ground under my feet. I am not a real brave person, my personality will not allow it. I don't know how many big bears you have confronted and killed, but I liked the breaking down part you mentioned. I went to Wasilla Alaska in 2017 to visit my cousin. He had booked us a fishing trip on the Kenai River. While floating down the river, our guide who was s good friend of my cousins, talked about himself and hunting partner walking up on a small 300 pound +/- grizzly while hunting moose. The guide was carrying a 338 Win. Mag. He only had time to raise his rifle to his hip and fire. He hit it squarely in the chest before the bear was on top of him. He took quite a bit of damage before his partner could get in a position to kill it. Needless to say, that stopped it hunt. So much for the breaking down part, eh? Must have been a lot of those variable you mentioned about enough power to stop humans. Ok, I'm not trying to argue with you about the issue. Just saying variables work in both situations. So, if a person 200 pound gets hit with a 380, and a 500 pound grizzly gets hit with a 44 magnum, which one will have the best outcome? To many variables.

[murf205]

"the gunfire and explosion's of the action most of the moose and any grizz moved out of the training area".
Larry, that's a good idea. Maybe we should ditch the handgun idea and carry artillery simulators, LOL. They are pretty loud.

[Larry Gibson]

"the gunfire and explosion's of the action most of the moose and any grizz moved out of the training area".
Larry, that's a good idea. Maybe we should ditch the handgun idea and carry artillery simulators, LOL. They are pretty loud.

Arty sims aren't near as loud as the pyrotecs we used to simulate IEDs.......especially to simulate knocking out a Stryker.......

Sometimes we'd put a command detonated pyrotec really close to the road. Then had our training aide RPGs fitted with a Roman Candle electrically fired by the trigger.
Hadji would lean out from cover (so the Strykers could ID it as an RPG) and shoot the roman candle. The strykers eyes got big a saucers.....then, when the roman candle bounced off the Stryker ....BOOM.....I'd detonate the pyro.......

Was very good training for the Strykers and they always appreciated the realism we provided.

[LeonardC]

robertbank: I really enjoy your posts. In one you talked about taking the test and I thought it required 6 rounds in X time; did your guide friend with the .460 do a speed reload? I was thinking when I read the test post that it's strange they would count out the 500 (me thinking it'd be hard to get off the 6 shots in the required itme); I have a speed loader for it, but have never tried to use it in a timed event.

Can you discribe your charging bear set up?

The bear targets I've seen (Action Targets) is 23x35 paper with a 10 3/4" score ring.

[Three44s]

Thre44s
Seems to me that a lot of your reply to my post, applies to both handgun stopping power on two legged attackers, and big four legged bears. You stated, that there were to many variables against defending against a person..........

Yes, there are a lot of variables involved with defense, whether it’s with a wild animal or a human attacker.

I have not had to defend against either.

I had a potential dangerous condition where the apex predator left the area where I graze cattle before I even knew it was about our lands but had a first hand account from people who know a grizzly and re-confirmed its sign after the encounter a day or so later.

I took the incident very seriously and did a lot of research as to what I needed to do about the matter. I already owned plenty of long guns, rifled and smoothbore and a handgun or two. I came to the conclusion that no long gun would likely be available if the worst, a charge happened.

It’s one thing to walk around with a long gun slung on my back. It’s quite another to WORK with one slung on one’s back.

I have no more desire than you do to get mixed up in such a mess, but just in case I did despite best efforts, I wanted to increase my odds of surviving such an encounter.

My most likely scenario would be out riding a horse when the mess started. I could have a long gun on the horse, but I am no rodeo star and the typical cow pony will get real excited. The last thing I want to see on Gods Green Earth is my only tool for self defense going out of sight still on the horse while I am dumped off preparing to become a bears rag doll.

But a long gun leaning against a tree or fence post and out of reach while working on my feet is just as bad.

After I made a decision to upgrade my handgun Arsenal, I had to decide WHAT gun I was choosing.

A good barely used .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk SS with a 7.5” barrel showed up in my favorite gun shop. I brought it home and began to shoot factory loads in it. I am not a gluten for punishment and handloading and shooting cast boolits became my salvation with that robust cartridge. A well used S&W K frame in 22 LR Rimfire rounded out my education process.

That was in April ‘97.

I realized that for my taste I wanted to find a revolver with a 4” barrel for strong side carry to take the place of the long barreled Ruger. The Smith Mountain Gun in 44 was hot on the scene and one followed me home in November ‘98.

An even longer barreled Ruger in SRH followed me home in Y2K. I wanted it for a barrel chop project. I found for my taste the Smith was the gun you found the bear with, and either of the Rugers were up to the task if you knew where the bear was!

The OP started this thread expressly to decide which 44 Mag DA revolver would best suit his needs. He is a confirmed big bore six gunner. If he wanted a debate about long guns, he would have and still could usher on in, but he did not.

A confirmed big bore six gunner understands that you do not just center mass a mad bear with any gun, be it a long gun or a short one. You break them down. The term has a specific meaning. A chest hit with the heaviest rifle is not a break down hit.

Breaking a front shoulder is the specific term for a break down shot.

Your .41 is quite capable of that shot but I prefer the 44 and really now, my 480 Ruger. I know the .41, I own two of them but I prefer bigger.

If you can break a front shoulder of a bear it has some serious mobility issues. It’s a also one of the few zones on a bear that’s more hittable compared to other more recognizable parts that one could aim at during a charge. You aim the hump and don’t be fussy about which shoulder takes the damage.

We are blessed with choices and anyone who can do serious work while packing a long gun, just knock yourself out. I will cheer your dedication.

I decided that practice upon practice and perseverance with my .44 mags would get me to where I could feel enough confidence in them as potential life saving tools. It looks like the OP feels that way as well.

Three44s

[littlejack]

I understand what you're saying, and agree with some. But, getting the perfect situation to be able to defend ones self, comes as a small percentage of what probably will happen if attacked by either predator or human attacker. I'm sure that the guide I wrote about would have really appreciated coming up on his grizzly, without the bear noticing him at all and standing broad side to provide the perfect breakdown shot. Didn't happen. So, I guess my bottom line is, it probably wouldn't matter what handgun that bear was shot with. If the bear took a solid frontal hit with a 338 round, I don't believe the same hit from a 480, would have had any different outcome.
Anyway, I'll really try my best to not ever put myself in any scenario with a big mad predator. That way I won't ever have to worry about it. Thanks for the friendly "verbal jousting"
Regards

[9mmskng]

Having HAD a S&W 25/45Colt, and currently a Redhawk 44mag, definitely stick with the 44mag, 45Colt isn't magnum force, factory, or handloads. I recently acquired a vintage Redhawk 44mag/7.5"bbl, Stainless, seems it would be ideal for your purpose, in a chest holster, or backpack.

[littlejack]

Woah, that's gonna open up a big can of worms.
S&W's weren't made to take the constant abuse of heavy loads.
Stoke that 45 up in a Redhawk.

[echo154]

Here is the thing...we are talking a cheesed of grizzly, your already toast....anything short of a 44 is gonna cheese him off.......I call LAWS!

[downzero]

Having HAD a S&W 25/45Colt, and currently a Redhawk 44mag, definitely stick with the 44mag, 45Colt isn't magnum force, factory, or handloads. I recently acquired a vintage Redhawk 44mag/7.5"bbl, Stainless, seems it would be ideal for your purpose, in a chest holster, or backpack.

Let me know when you get a 300 grain bullet to nearly 1300 fps out of a 4" 44 magnum. When you do, I'll believe your claims that 45 Colt isn't "magnum force." Or simply consult a reloading manual--there are book 45 Colt loads that exceed anything a 44 Magnum can do. They just can't be shot out of a S&W.

Woah, that's gonna open up a big can of worms.
S&W's weren't made to take the constant abuse of heavy loads.
Stoke that 45 up in a Redhawk.

They don't call it the "Ruger Only" page for nothing!

[DougGuy]

Arty sims aren't near as loud as the pyrotecs we used to simulate IEDs.......especially to simulate knocking out a Stryker.......

Sometimes we'd put a command detonated pyrotec really close to the road. Then had our training aide RPGs fitted with a Roman Candle electrically fired by the trigger.
Hadji would lean out from cover (so the Strykers could ID it as an RPG) and shoot the roman candle. The strykers eyes got big a saucers.....then, when the roman candle bounced off the Stryker ....BOOM.....I'd detonate the pyro.......

Was very good training for the Strykers and they always appreciated the realism we provided.

This actually sounds like a whole lot more fun than hunting!