Deliberately Opening a Can of Worms..............

[carelesslove]

Now that I am approaching 50 years of reloading & 48 years of bullet casting, I seem to finally have the time to resolve some old shooting problems.

I freely admit that I have cast, reloaded, and shot many thousands of rounds of ammo - and had thought, over the years - that I had things all figured out, only to find out that my vintage recipes really didn't seem to do all that well anymore - particularly gun-to-gun.

Let's pick one caliber, say .44 Magnum. I barely had enough money in those early days, to buy powder and primers, for one gun. I didn't own a caliper and had no concept of ever owning one. I was sizing all my bullets to 0.429" and things seemed to be working.

Then, the newer .44's came along (~1980's, along with a chronograph) and they really shot so much better & faster than my old M29-2, that I couldn't believe it. I had a 4" M629 that was 150 fps faster than my 8 3/8" gun - with no leading!

I gained access to calipers and micrometers and found out there were vast differences in cylinder throat diameters. My old pre-29's and M29-2's had throats that miked 0.432" (+/- 0.001") and my newer .44's miked dead-on 0.429".

Immediately, I bought molds that cast 0.434" (+0.0002 / -0) bullets and lubersizer dies at 0.432" and my game changed. Velocities went up, apparent pressure went down, leading went away, and accuracy improved - even with my aging vision.

Now, I actually load 2 "sets" of .44 ammo, for the two "sets" of guns.

I didn't stop there, I went on to solve my other accuracy / leading problem - my S&W 1950 & 1955 Target .45 Revolvers. These had 0.455-0.456" throats and "normal", 0.452" bullets just rattled through the oversized throats, blew out all the lube, and leaded profusely. I applied the same fix: I ordered molds that would cast a 0.456" (+0.001" / -0) bullet and sized them to 0.455" and these old guns displayed exceptional accuracy, with no leading.

I also learned that you don't have to cast your bullets "rock hard", just cast / size them for your gun's specific throat diameter and use a good, soft lube.

Y'all might want to give this a try some day. Don't wait as long as I did. It works for me in multiple calibers.

Thanks, Tom "carelesslove" Love

[GhostHawk]

Agree, they do not have to be hard, just big enough, with a good enough lube and not pushed to the bloody bleeding edge of speed.

IMO the harder you push it the better the lube has to be. Not to mention fit.

[Butzbach]

Now that I am approaching 50 years of reloading & 48 years of bullet casting, I seem to finally have the time to resolve some old shooting problems.

I freely admit that I have cast, reloaded, and shot many thousands of rounds of ammo - and had thought, over the years - that I had things all figured out, only to find out that my vintage recipes really didn't seem to do all that well anymore - particularly gun-to-gun.

Let's pick one caliber, say .44 Magnum. I barely had enough money in those early days, to buy powder and primers, for one gun. I didn't own a caliper and had no concept of ever owning one. I was sizing all my bullets to 0.429" and things seemed to be working.

Then, the newer .44's came along (~1980's, along with a chronograph) and they really shot so much better & faster than my old M29-2, that I couldn't believe it. I had a 4" M629 that was 150 fps faster than my 8 3/8" gun - with no leading!

I gained access to calipers and micrometers and found out there were vast differences in cylinder throat diameters. My old pre-29's and M29-2's had throats that miked 0.432" (+/- 0.001") and my newer .44's miked dead-on 0.429".

Immediately, I bought molds that cast 0.434" (+0.0002 / -0) bullets and lubersizer dies at 0.432" and my game changed. Velocities went up, apparent pressure went down, leading went away, and accuracy improved - even with my aging vision.

Now, I actually load 2 "sets" of .44 ammo, for the two "sets" of guns.

I didn't stop there, I went on to solve my other accuracy / leading problem - my S&W 1950 & 1955 Target .45 Revolvers. These had 0.455-0.456" throats and "normal", 0.452" bullets just rattled through the oversized throats, blew out all the lube, and leaded profusely. I applied the same fix: I ordered molds that would cast a 0.456" (+0.001" / -0) bullet and sized them to 0.455" and these old guns displayed exceptional accuracy, with no leading.

I also learned that you don't have to cast your bullets "rock hard", just cast / size them for your gun's specific throat diameter and use a good, soft lube.

Y'all might want to give this a try some day. Don't wait as long as I did. It works for me in multiple calibers.

Thanks, Tom "carelesslove" Love

Thanks for your post. I don’t have your experience but did OK with my M29-2, no calipers shooting straight Linotype with Alox back in the early 80s. With what I’ve learned on this board I’m wondering how much was luck! I’m retired now so I’ve got the time to find and resolve what ever shooting problems might come up. We’ll see what happens.

[fecmech]

I learned that lesson with my Ruger Super BH, it had .433 throats. Never had a problem shooting max loads of 296 with WW or lino .429 bullets, got to AA class in Silhouette. When I started to shoot .44 specials the wheels came off! Evidently the max loads bumped the bullets up and all that 296 kept the throats clean. Once I beagled my mold and sized to .433 my Specials were accurate and did not lead and my Mag accuracy improved.

[Dom]

After converting over to PC on my cast bullets , any problems I have with leading has gone away. I can shoot BHN 10.5 or 19.They all shoot great.

[bangerjim]

[GooseGestapo]

Nah, not a real can of worms. NO WORM DIRT!!!
Ya know?! That black stuff people take a pinch of and stick under their lower lip!
Really disgusting
!

[Frosty Boolit]

I've not forgotten the words I first heard here so many years ago: "Boolit fit is king"

[Char-Gar]

Many years ago, back in the late 50's an article by Elmer Keith entitled "Sixgun Miscellanea" was published in Gun's Digest. It was later included in one of their "Treasury" publications. In that article Keith discussed the relationship of bullet size, revolver bore diameter, revolver throat size and alloy hardness. He was spot on, those that read it and paid heed didn't have to wonder around in the maze for decades. This knowledge has been around for a very long time.

[DougGuy]

Reinforces what I always say, fit to the throats. That is assuming the throats are larger than groove diameter.

You can fit to the throats mechanically with sizing dies, light drag fit is perfect, OR you can fit to the throats with pressure and soft enough alloy to obturate upon firing, either way boolits exit the front of the cylinder at throat diameter which is what the goal is.

PS my avatar Uberti Old West model has .4565" throats, .451" groove diameter, I size the 454190 cast in 50/50+2% to .456" and lube with SPG. This thing will shoot the wings off a fly at 10 yards, and never need to clean the bore. I think I use 9.0gr Herco in that load, I can't remember. Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I could SEE a fly at 10yds!

[Jtarm]

I was very fortunate in the pre-internet days to have stumbled on to LBT and Veral Smith’s writings. It was a revelation.

I had previously slugged only barrels, but then started slugging throats and, whoa! That ol .” Size 001 over groove diameter” saw got dull in a hurry.

I also learned why those supposedly-superior “hard-cast” commercial bullets shot so poorly and quit trying to cast mine hard.

[Meatpuppet]

You really want to open a can of worms? Hold my beer and watch this...

The Lee FCD is awesome!

Yep. That just happened.

[Old Caster]

You really want to open a can of worms? Hold my beer and watch this...

The Lee FCD is awesome!

Yep. That just happened.

Please convince all the people I shoot competitive bullseye with that the FCD is good. I am getting old and need an advantage.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I too had good luck sizing to the throats and using conventional lube and a softer alloy.