primer choice

[Riverside]

A champion black powder cartridge shooter told me to use large pistol primers for loading a .450 BPE. Seems to work fine.

[greenjoytj]

I would compare accuracy and look at chronograph muzzle velocity and extreme spreads using all 4 primer sizes or power levels. Standard and magnum large rifle primers and standard and magnum large pistol primers. Your cartridge holds a lot of powder even though BP lights easily I would give magnum primer a good work out, they might help to get more powder burning inside the barrel were it will do some good, rather the eject a tongue of flaming particles out the muzzle.

I use large pistol magnum primers in 45 Colt and I’m just burning 35 grains of 2fg Old Eynsford.

[Captain*Kirk]

Not to be a wise guy, but in today's world, we don't have much in the way of choices.
By that I mean switching between brands and such. I would never advocate switching LR for LP as some folks have suggested, or LRM for LR.

[bpcrshooter]

put a under primer wad under the pistol primers, it will save your breach face. Or use Fed210 primers and not worry about it

[Chill Wills]

Some real interesting ideas and opinions here. I am not sure what they are based on.

Yes, LPP work well with BP. They are on average about .008" shorter than LRP's and seat deeper as a result. Most good quality breach faces are plenty hard enough to handle the primer setback. I never have had problems in a dozen rifles and hundreds of thousands of BPCR rounds. BUT, someones friend of a friend's son once cratered the breach face - right? So it is something to watch for.

And, of us that are NRA master class and have, in my case won national and international championships, think we can build better (more accurate) BPCR loads using Large pistol primers for our target rifles. If you are not shooting target rifles and especially at longer ranges, there may not be much to be gained over a large rifle primer.

Fed LPP match and the old Remington 2-1/2 primer were outstanding performers. CCI large rifle primers are also mild and very good with BP. Once the first kernel of BP is lit, the primers job is best done if accuracy is the goal.

[indian joe]

Some real interesting ideas and opinions here. I am not sure what they are based on.

Yes, LPP work well with BP. They are on average about .008" shorter than LRP's and seat deeper as a result. Most good quality breach faces are plenty hard enough to handle the primer setback. I never have had problems in a dozen rifles and hundreds of thousands of BPCR rounds. BUT, someones friend of a friend's son once cratered the breach face - right? So it is something to watch for.

And, of us that are NRA master class and have, in my case won national and international championships, think we can build better (more accurate) BPCR loads using Large pistol primers for our target rifles. If you are not shooting target rifles and especially at longer ranges, there may not be much to be gained over a large rifle primer.

Fed LPP match and the old Remington 2-1/2 primer were outstanding performers. CCI large rifle primers are also mild and very good with BP.

Once the first kernel of BP is lit, the primers job is best done if accuracy is the goal.

sooo .....magnum primers for blackpowder never made sense to me (because of how easy the stuff is to light) it seemed to me was a fad/phase that we shot our way through a couple of decades ago - rears its head now and again (likely based on someone reading the wisdom of a "name" from back then) ? same old --- let the paper tell the story I guess.

to that end would you say a chrono test (more than one!) showing best possible extreme spread for a string is the best way to figure this - which primer is "best" - for me the chrono eliminates the "nut behind the butt" factor ....I might shoot some handy groups at times off the bench but can never do it well enough (consistently) to say this primer is better than that.

my thinking is we will not get those single digit ES numbers without good consistent ignition so the chrono number should tell the story . ?

your thoughts?

cheers
joe

[curdog007]

If the rifle's a 450 BPE, it's a hunting rifle, not a target rifle. So accuracy with iron sights at 100 yards in the 3" range is plenty good.
I have never had a problem getting the correct velocities (and hence barrel regulation if it's a double rifle) with original service charge weights using standard LR primers.
Gun writers gotta write about something, I guess......

[indian joe]

If the rifle's a 450 BPE, it's a hunting rifle, not a target rifle. So accuracy with iron sights at 100 yards in the 3" range is plenty good.
I have never had a problem getting the correct velocities (and hence barrel regulation if it's a double rifle) with original service charge weights using standard LR primers.
Gun writers gotta write about something, I guess......

hmmm not a gun writer here but didnt pay attention to the op !!!!!!

[Chill Wills]

Hello Joe,
You about covered to a T what I think. The chronograph and the target, especially at range, tell the story. What ever someones choice in primers can easily be verified with some comparison testing.

Riverside, I would say what ever primer you settle on as accurate for your needs will be great. A rifle so chambered is interesting. What do you have, a double of some kind?

[Lead pot]

put a under primer wad under the pistol primers, it will save your breach face. Or use Fed210 primers and not worry about it

Cutting a paper wad under the primer is not a good thing.
I have two rifles, one Shiloh and the other is a CPA I cut printer paper wads seating the primer to raise the pistol primer and you see the results on this breach block. Those are gas cuts that pistol primer cutting the softer primer cup the pistol primers have from the back pressure caused by the 25# printer paper covering the flash hole.

[Edward]

I use coffee filters and never had that issue/Ed

[Lead pot]

Here is the CPA breach block.
I don't pull that block to often or it would not have been damaged this bad.

[tmanbuckhunter]

I tested several large rifle primers, and pistol primers consistently when developing a load I was comfortable with for silhouette, and each time in my CPA 44-1/2 a federal large pistol magnum primer won out delivering sub 5fps SD's for 10 shots each time. I'm sure the 7-8fps SD loads with CCI Large Rifle primers are capable of winning a match, but it also boils down to confidence in your load. I don't prime thru tracing paper or news print, just use a tracing paper wad in the case over the flash hole, that I punch out with a 45 cal wad, and I seat them with my ball starter. No issues on the breach face at roughly 2000 rounds thru the rifle currently. Out of my trapdoor springer and other bpcr guns I do use large rifle primers on the odd chance damage does occur.

[indian joe]

I tested several large rifle primers, and pistol primers consistently when developing a load I was comfortable with for silhouette, and each time in my CPA 44-1/2 a federal large pistol magnum primer won out delivering sub 5fps SD's for 10 shots each time. I'm sure the 7-8fps SD loads with CCI Large Rifle primers are capable of winning a match, but it also boils down to confidence in your load. I don't prime thru tracing paper or news print, just use a tracing paper wad in the case over the flash hole, that I punch out with a 45 cal wad, and I seat them with my ball starter. No issues on the breach face at roughly 2000 rounds thru the rifle currently. Out of my trapdoor springer and other bpcr guns I do use large rifle primers on the odd chance damage does occur.

I used to know Standard Deviation but had no use for stuff like that for many years - I do simple stuff these days - Extreme spread for a string is all - have got that under ten FPS --- a quickie sample of a SD calculator says SD of 2.5 for one of those ten shot strings ? does that compute ?
That load using normal Federal LR primers, black powder and a HDPE wad. Have not tested this at extreme range but it looks a good number to me ?

[tmanbuckhunter]

I used to know Standard Deviation but had no use for stuff like that for many years - I do simple stuff these days - Extreme spread for a string is all - have got that under ten FPS --- a quickie sample of a SD calculator says SD of 2.5 for one of those ten shot strings ? does that compute ?
That load using normal Federal LR primers, black powder and a HDPE wad. Have not tested this at extreme range but it looks a good number to me ?

Sounds like a dandy of a number to me! A man that can get an extreme spread under 10fps consistently is a man that knows what he is doing.

Here is my silhouette load. I have another picture but I can't get it to upload of the same load with CCI LR primers. 1140fps avg, SD of 5, spread of 18.

[greenjoytj]

Cutting a paper wad under the primer is not a good thing.
I have two rifles, one Shiloh and the other is a CPA, I cut printer paper wads seating the primer to raise the pistol primer and you see the results on this breach block. Those are gas cuts that pistol primer cutting the softer primer cup the pistol primers have from the back pressure caused by the 25# printer paper covering the flash hole.

Back pressure? Was the flash hole actually blocked, covered by the paper disc that was used to shim the primer higher in the pocket?

I would make a tiny hole equal to or slightly larger than the flash hole in the shim paper disc. I want the full power of the primers squirt of flame to hit the powder.

[Chill Wills]

Back pressure? Was the flash hole actually blocked, covered by the paper disc that was used to shim the primer higher in the pocket?

I would make a tiny hole equal to or slightly larger than the flash hole in the shim paper disc. I want the full power of the primers squirt of flame to hit the powder.

I think you may have greatly underestimated the power of primers.

I have put almost 20,000 target rounds down range using the paper disk covering the primer hole in an attempt to make more accurate target loads by producing better ES and SD. Shooting against the same loads, all the same except for the paper disk, in the long run neither numbers nor accuracy were better either way. Conclusion, ...no difference. Tho not part of the test, in hind sight, the thought that the flimsy thin paper would block some, or even a very small part of the primer intensity is clearly impossible.

I am neutral on the issue of using 20lb paper to shim up 0.007" shorter LPP's seated in LRP pockets. .....aside from the fact that the paper is not thick enough. Especially crushed.