Another A5 question

[Patrick L]

OK, so I am very aware of the history of the Browning Auto 5 and also the Remington Model 11. I know about the relationship Browning established with Remington in the early years and the long line of fine guns both companies produced over the years.

What I know nothing about, however, is where the various Savage copies fit in. Shirley and Vanderlein make absolutely no mention of these in their book "The Browning Auto 5 Shotgun" which is THE book on these wonderful guns. This makes me wonder, did Savage just outright copy these guns, maybe once some patents expired?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Pretty sure Savage was licensed to make guns during the wars. JMB was a pretty savvy Business Man and I doubt he would have let anyone copy his guns without being licensed to do so. Also all those patents were renewed several times and new patents covering improvements were also gotten by his sons.

The Two Piece Lifter and Speed Feed Function which came out in 1963 were both developed by his son, and were probably the most significant improvement made to the design since the behind the trigger guard safety button.

The "Speed Feed" function lets you load a round into an empty magazine and it is then automatically loaded into the chamber. If the bolt is open the gun is empty Period! If you are hunting and you run the gun dry it is so much faster than port loading another round or stuffing a round in the magazine and racking the bolt it is silly. Makes for much faster follow up shots on birds that you missed the with the first 3 shots!.

Also on the earlier guns you can only load the magazine with the bolt is closed and the bolt release button is depressed (which closes the bolt!). Post 1963 guns are also much easier to run in a Tactical Situation since the Speed Feature allows faster options for keeping the gun running. I played with earlier guns trying to get them to load easier but unless you substitute the later model's parts and two piece lifter it ain't gonna happen. I got rid of all my older guns and now have a 1964 model which was my Uncles Pristine Bird Hunting Gun and a 1963 model which is my Tactical/Slug Hunting gun. I have posted pics of both of these many times here but you can't see them because the site is currently not showing any pictures !!!

Randy

[turtlezx]

1930 to 1949 for savage my father worked for them until ww2 (utica new york)
built allotta them from parts that fell into his lunch box

[too many things]

randy
somewhat wrong
rem and savage used the button to load
browning didnt
if you have bolt open on a browning and happen to reload best not to have your finger in the chamber. have 2 fingers to back me up
its far worse than a grand
that was how they got around JB ,---- barrels dont interchange . because Browning use interhall-- rem sav had the one on the barrel ext
the 3in mag uses that design
rem- sav will throw at 2 clock browning will be at 3 mag at 2
i have the 20--16 12 and 12mag
there was roomer that some 28s were made. as a custom never seen one

[W.R.Buchanan]

2 many: A5's built prior to 1963 had to have the bolt closed in order to load the magazine. This was due to the fact that you had to press the bolt release to free the lifter so it can be depressed to allow the round to go in the magazine,,, which in turn drops the bolt. Fingers need to be absent! You can also "Port Load" the gun by placing a round in the ejection port and dropping the bolt with the bolt release button. But you cannot load the magazine with the bolt open as the gun will not allow it and you must depress the Bolt Release Button to load the magazine in any event. This is why you turn the gun over so the loading port is up and your thumb is comfortably on the Bolt Release Button.

The fastest way to load an early A5 is to Port Load the first round which closes the bolt and the gun is ready to fire, then turn it over, depress the bolt release with you thumb and hold it down, then feed rounds into the Loading Port until full.

I sold all my early A5's due to this problem. It is awkward to run one of these, and the newer guns are so much faster it is ridiculous. .

Guns made after 1963 have the "Two Piece Lifter" and the "Speed Feed" feature, where by,

If the bolt is locked open the gun was empty, period.

The Two Piece Lifter eliminated the need to depress the bolt release to free up the lifter so rounds could be inserted into the magazine.

Then inserting a round into the magazine automatically feeds it into the chamber making the gun ready to fire.

The bolt is now closed, and subsequent rounds could then be loaded into the magazine. the Bolt Release need not be held down.

The gun will automatically feed any round in the magazine that is present. It will only stop feeding when the magazine is empty, and at that point the bolt is held open indicating that the gun is empty. You can also easily see it is empty.

That is the way they work.

Randy

[too many things]

randy you are wrong i have a 1957 it will load with the bolt open. if you get finger in the open bolt it will leave extractor cut.

[too many things]

the savage was a 720 made like the rem11
parts will interchange from sav to rem but not the browning
browning had a America made i just sold one it was marked and stamped browning but the internal was rem 11 the barrel dont interchange
it did have the cut off for mag and rear safety , finish was matt

[W.R.Buchanan]

randy you are wrong i have a 1957 it will load with the bolt open. if you get finger in the open bolt it will leave extractor cut.

Does it have a two piece cartridge lifter? They can be retro fitted to older guns. When you put the round into the empty magazine does it automatically feed it into the chamber?

None of the older guns I've had would allow the lifter to go down without pushing the bolt release button and holding it down. The actual Bolt Stop (sheet metal piece on the right side) that holds the bolt back gets pushed in when you depress the bolt release, thus releasing the bolt and allowing the Cartridge Lifter to be depressed exposing the entrance to the mag tube.

Art of Art's Gun Shop in Missouri took the time to explain why the gun works this way and why it won't do what I wanted, and the only solution was to either substitute a post '63 Lifter and Bolt Latch or get a newer gun..

Randy

[Cap'n Morgan]

Once in a while, I would load my A5 (old system) via the magazine, then engage the magazine shut-off button - leaving it at a ninety degree angle from the receiver - and pull back the bolt. I then called for the target (low-mount skeet) with an apparently unloaded gun with an open bolt. When the target appeared, I would shoulder the gun and in the same movement flick the shut-off button by moving the left hand forward. The bolt would snap shut in a blink of an eye, and once the target was eliminated, I would then declare to the non-A5 savvy onlookers that this particular gun fired from an open bolt