Alliant Power Pistol not burning

[HumptyDumpty]

Bottom-Line: What would be the best approach for getting small charges of this powder to burn consistently?

Full Story:
Power Pistol has served me very well in 45 Super and 7.62x25. Coincidentally, they take similar charges; 8.7 and 8.0, respectively. I'm currently attempting to create a 32 S&W Long loading similar to what buffalo-bore offers, but with a SWC. This would be a 98 grain boolit, at 800fps or better. I settled on three and four grains for my initial test loads, with the intention of first testing safety and functionality, then running them over a chronograph.
Unfortunately, while all other indications were promising, nearly half of the boolits got stuck just inside the forcing cone, with a little pile of unburnt powder behind them. The seating depth was 1.218" My first thought was to seat them a little deeper, as the load is nowhere near compressed. Perhaps a magnum primer would be better, but I would really prefer to use my current primers. thoughts?

[chutesnreloads]

No real experience but think you'd be better served with a faster burning powder

[rintinglen]

Sometimes, you can't get there from here.
Power Pistol is one of my favorites for loads in the .357 SIG, as well as the 9 MM, but it is at its best in the 18,000-35,000 psi range. You might maybe able to get a useful load in your 32 S&W Long, but I'm betting against it. I would try a heavier charge with a firm crimp, were I to persist in this direction. But I doubt you'll have success. Unique is the slowest powder usually recommended for the 32 S&W Long, and while PP is supposedly close to it on the burn charts, I find it to be at least 10% slower. Too slow, IMO, for what you want to do.

[HumptyDumpty]

I just happened to be digging through my burn rate charts, and now I fear you may be right. It's a real shame, because I have an educated hunch that PP would give me the performance I want, but going over 4 grains would likely raise pressures excessively. I'll start tinkering with other powders; a solution exists Buffalo Bore has proven that.

[uscra112]

It must have something to do with the deterrent coatings. I have gotten Blue Dot, which is nominally even slower, to work in small charges where calculated pressure is only 10kpsi.

I too use Power Pistol to the exclusion of all others in the 9mm. 9m loads tend to run 25kpsi to 31kpsi.

n.b. 800 fps out of what length barrel?

[gwpercle]

Power Pistol will not work in light charges with low pressures ... it's burn rate requires more pressure thus a larger charge to burn completely .
Unique is the same way ... for years I tried to light load Unique ... new loader and that didn't work well at all ... learned about burn rates and bought some Bullseye ... and Wah-Lah ... light loads made in heaven . Don't fight slow powder ...get Bullseye , 700X , Red Dot , Titegroup , AA #2 , W231 , or HP38 ... some faster powder and all your troubles will be over .

I just wanted to use one powder , Unique , for all my loads ...light target , mid-range and heavy magnum ... it was a nice plan but it just doesn't work ... As soon as I started trying faster and then a slower powder or two ... my ammo got a lot better .
Gary

[HumptyDumpty]

It must have something to do with the deterrent coatings. I have gotten Blue Dot, which is nominally even slower, to work in small charges where calculated pressure is only 10kpsi.

I too use Power Pistol to the exclusion of all others in the 9mm. 9m loads tend to run 25kpsi to 31kpsi.

n.b. 800 fps out of what length barrel?

3 inches.

[uscra112]

Dittos in re: Unique. When I first started loading .38 Special I found that it just didn't work for low pressure target loads. Burned very dirty and accuracy went to pot.

I load the old .32 Long Colt at low pressure for my old boys' rifles. Bullseye works just fine. AA#2 also.

[243winxb]

Squib-
Increase Neck Tension, bullet hold. The bullet is moving to soon. Pressure is not building to burn powder correctly. A smaller expander may help & a strong crimp.

Seat the bullet deeper, if possible. Shorter OAL.

Next would be trying a magnum primer.

[243winxb]

If 2400 will work, Power Pistol should also. 2400 has a lot slower burn rate. 2400, Would be dirty.

[243winxb]

powders in same family/type

[Sasquatch-1]

You may want to use a filler to hold the charge against the primer. I use a polyester pillow stuffing from the sewing store. A bag to fill an average throw pillow will last a VERY long time. Also, to see if this will work you can use dryer lint from the filter in the same way.

[uscra112]

All things be equal, Power Pistol should work. But all things are not equal. PP is expressly designed for 9mm pressures in the 25kpsi range. It's not the only modern powder which uses complex coating chemistry to achieve its' ends, but which makes it unsuitable for lower pressures. Lil'Gun is another such powder that I use in the Hornet and .22 Lovell at 25kpsi, but which is does poorly for loads around 10kpsi. AA5744 is yet another powder that cast bullet shooters get good results from at pressures above about 20kpsi, but which burns poorly at 15kpsi, leaving many half burnt kernels behind., while 4198, nominally a slower powder, does just fine at reduced pressures. I'm sure there are more, but those are two that I've used myself.

On the other hand, Varget, which is a modern powder meant for the .308 size cartridges at 50kpsi, turns out to work pretty so well in the Krag at half that pressure that it's a go-to powder for cast bullet competition shooters. Go figure.

[HumptyDumpty]

The rounds that discharged properly shot very well, and I suspect gave me the power I want (the chronograph never got used, as I had stopped by an indoor range first, before driving to my outdoor spot). Something similar that conflagrates a tad easier would likely be perfect. Of course, I am tempted to try seating a bit deeper or using a filler first, just in case. My only concerns is that I'd inadvertently raise pressures to a dangerous degree. The whole point here is to get the most efficient combination of within-limits pressure and time under said pressure, for my barrel length. Definitely not trying to hot-rod the gun.

[uscra112]

Polyester fiber at these low pressures/temperatures tends to melt rather than burn, leaving a nasty hard residue. Don't ask how I know. Kapok is much better, dryer lint is OK in a pinch.

[Burnt Fingers]

Many of those boutique ammo loads aren't easy to duplicate. Often they are not using the canister powders available to the public. They may even be using a duplex load.

[MT Gianni]

32 long dotes on fast powders like Bullseye and Red Dot. It does many things well but not necessarily slow powders.

[Old Caster]

I ran into this with H110 in a 22 Hornet. I kept going lower with my loads because they were becoming more accurate despite claims that they would detonate because I didn't believe it. My best load in my memory was 7.4 grains and I don't remember the recommended amount. I was shooting it out of a 14 inch barrel TC that I had bedded and was getting incredible accuracy and easily winning competitions continually. I found that when getting down to 7 grains I would sometimes get squib loads and when looking in the empty case, the powder would still be in there but into a stuck together mess that had to be cleaned out starting with a thin nail. This is probably why detonation claims existed because people would fire another round after having a bullet stuck in their barrel. Not firing after a squib should be one of the first things people should learn when firing any gun.

[uscra112]

Just can't wipe out that old urban legend about smokeless powder "detonating", can we.

[megasupermagnum]

800X is the powder you want to be using. It doesn't get its slow burn rate from a ton of deterrents, it is from its large flake size. It ignites great, even at hardly any pressure. It should be slow enough, you can get the speed you want in a safe pressure range.