Slightly out of headspace .223 rounds: How bad is it?

[VariableRecall]

I had recently started loading up .223 for my AR. Certainly it's nothing like the straight-walled pistol brass I've reloaded earlier, but I've managed to get my groove after a couple of tribulations.

My first whoopsie was getting a piece of brass stuck in my die, due to improperly positioning the stem of the seating die. I needed to find a friend with an anvil to get it un-stuck. That certainly humbled me, and just to be safe in the future, I had ordered an L.E Wilson Headspace Gauge for .223. It's been a lifesaver ever since I got it, and I wouldn't have known how close I got to some real trouble without it.

Partially out of fear of sticking a case, I had tuned the seating stem and the sizing die to the point where I was just neck sizing, only really ensuring that I could allow for a snug fit of the bullet during the seating step.

I continued adjustment according to the all-knowing headspace gauge, at first, it had told me I was doing something seriously wrong. As it turns out, it was the stem again, which had ballooned the back of the case mouth to the point it was not fitting in the gauge at all. Thankfully, it was a quick fix.

While that issue was fixed, I had the majority of rounds plunk just fine in the headspace gauge, but I had started to see a pattern. Any of the brass I had on hand which did not headspace perfectly after I had prepared it had trouble headspacing after I had loaded it. This was not to an extent that I first deemed a problem, as the brass went from Sticking halfway out of the guage to the point where I could feel the rim at the top of the headspace gauge. I felt that it wasn't an issue until I had finally tuned my die perfectly for full length sizing.

It took a lot of tuning, case lubing, and sacrificing about a dozen cases, but I had finally tuned my sizing die for full length sizing, allowing for a perfect plunk every time no matter how well the brass fit before in the headspace gauge.

While I can now load with piece of mind, now I must think hard about the approximately 60 rounds or so, maybe more that stick a teeny bit out of the headspace gauge that are now in my inventory. Just to be extra safe, I am going to headspace gauge ALL the rounds that I have loaded earlier, and separate any that stick out of the gauge even the smallest amount.

When I took my first batch to the range that may have had rounds that were slightly out of spec, one jammed my AR a bit, and the bullet showed marks from the rifling.
I'd anticipate that slightly out of headspace rounds would likely cause issues such as the above in the future.

Should I just pull down the offending rounds? Or, should they run just fine in my AR and get their time to be re-sized after they have been fired?

[toallmy]

You should be very careful jamming the bullets in the rifling . But I’m confused with your headspace issues as described . Adjusting your full length sizing die & the depriming stem should take care of your headspace , the seating die should adjust your overall length.

[243winxb]

When bullets show marks from the rifling, the OAL is to long. Seat the bullets deeper into the case.

Pull down the offending rounds. Full length resize the brass with the FL die and shell holder making contact.

Have you checked trim length?

[VariableRecall]

You should be very careful jamming the bullets in the rifling . But I’m confused with your headspace issues as described . Adjusting your full length sizing die & the depriming stem should take care of your headspace , the seating die should adjust your overall length.

I believe that the overall length issue was just me not being careful when seating. It may have been a one-off issue because I haven't had any issues that I could attribute to headspace issues. Either way it was worth mentioning.

I would like to let you know that my sizing die is now full sizing my .223 brass properly, and my most recent loads have been gorgeous, but that still leaves some of my earlier rounds that are ever-so-slightly sticking out of my headspace gauge. Not enough to see the rim sticking out of the gauge, but enough to notice that it's out of spec.

[VariableRecall]

When bullets show marks from the rifling, the OAL is to long. Seat the bullets deeper into the case.

Pull down the offending rounds. Full length resize the brass with the FL die and shell holder making contact.

Have you checked trim length?

The headspace gauge also has a rim on the front that would indicate that a case would be longer than its in-spec length. I haven't looked the length of any cases in detail, but that should be something to look into as well.

All the brass that I've got with me is range pickup stuff, so it's not exactly primo sourced brass. These days factory .223 brass is pretty difficult to come by.

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE=VariableRecall;5240495 the bullet showed marks from the rifling.

The rifle is telling you that your OAL is a bit too long.
Without getting off into match barrels-- AR chambers often tend to be a little on the 'generous' side.
Cases that hang up a little in a chamber guage might be fine in your AR.


Should I just pull down the offending rounds? Or, should they run just fine in my AR and get their time to be re-sized after they have been fired?[/QUOTE]

I'd establish a good OAL, then cycle them through by hand, and go from there.
As far as pulling all of them--- I'd just re-do the offending ones that didn't cycle right.

And don't make extra work for yourself. There are plenty of other people who are more than glad to do that for you.

[VariableRecall]

I'd establish a good OAL, then cycle them through by hand, and go from there.
As far as pulling all of them--- I'd just re-do the offending ones that didn't cycle right.

And don't make extra work for yourself. There are plenty of other people who are more than glad to do that for you.

I think that your idea is probably the best one. I'm still well-set on testing ALL of my rounds in the headspace gauge and separating any that stick out too much. However, I think the best solution is to at least try a whole magazine of these off-headspaced rounds at the local range. If they are really going to be an issue for my rifle, might as well not have any surprises for the rest of the rounds I have in stock.

I did notice that some of the soft-pointed rounds that I had loaded up had squished noses, which may have caused some degree of variation my my loadings. They all fit in magazines just fine, and I stuck to the recommendations from Sierra Bullets, but it's still something to look out for.

[toallmy]

You can figure out your overall length with a dummy round without powder and primer by coloring the bullet with a magic marker and seating it deeper until you don’t see the scratches from the rifling on the Bullet . That’ll at least let you know when your not jamming it in the rifling .

[racepres]

IMO.. Being a Wildcatter, the Headspace will only be an issue if you continue to full length resize and fire rounds in a Generous chamber..If you insist on such practices, pay particular attention to incipient head separation..
But... The Only semi-auto's I own are .22RF, and Pistols.. All of my (straight sided) handgun rounds get Full Length sized..RF's are left where they fall!!!

[1hole]

Most of us never own a case gage. Put your gage in a drawer and forget it. Make ammo that fits your rifle; that's where it will be fired.

[M-Tecs]

The Wilson gage https://lewilson.com/case-gage is not a direct reading measurement. It is nothing more than a go/no-go gage unless used with a dial indicator and a height gage.

Case Gage
MEASURES MIN/MAX CASE LENGTH AND MIN/MAX HEADSPACE
Part Number: CG-CG-223R

L.E. Wilson Inc. a family owned and operated business since 1927. And the first to produce the Case Gage in 1935
The "Wilson Case Gage" A one piece gage that will check overall length and indicate min/max case length
Measures min/max Headspace. Does not measure body diameters
This gage is intended to be used with fired cases to determine a basis for full length sizing and case trimming.

The RCBS Precision Mic is direct reading and gives you an actual true measurement. https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing...n-mic/564.html

The Hornady Headspace Comparator https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/ does not give you a actual measurement unless it's used in conjunction with a standard like an actual headspace gage.

None of these are designed to be a plunk gage like some of the handgun gages. At one time Wilson made that claim but that was a long time ago.

For 223 plunk gages here are a couple.

https://sheridanengineering.com/prod...unition-gauge/

https://www.jprifles.com/instruction...e/JPCG-223.pdf

The RCBS is the most useful but it's slow and not cheap. The Hornaday when used as a comparator it is the second most useful but when used with a headspace gauge as a standard it is fast and cheaper than the RCBS. The Wilson will tell you if you are within the max/min. of SAAMI specs for headspace and case length and not much more. The Wilson does not tell you actual size or even the amount of shoulder set back like the Hornady or the RCBS.

As you stated bottleneck cases are somewhat different than straight walled handgun cases. Based on you having several issues I would recommend reviewing a good reloading manual on bottleneck die setup.

The RCBS and the Hornady gages/comparators are incredibly useful if you are trying to maximize case life and accuracy. For bolt guns I use .001" to .002" shoulder clearance and for gas guns I use .002" to .003". Normally .003" to .005" is recommended for pump/gas guns to allow for dirty chambers and inconsistent shoulder spring back. Without annealing it is common to see .002" or .003" differences due to different spring back.

The RCBS and Hornady with a headspace gage really simplify loading for multiple chambers of the same caliber or out of spec chambers.

For higher volume accuracy orientated shooters the RCBS or the Hornady are extremely useful. For the folks doing limited shooting they are less beneficial since normally ultimate accuracy and case life if not the goal.

A good overview here https://bisonballistics.com/articles...rifle-chambers

[Winger Ed.]

I did notice that some of the soft-pointed rounds that I had loaded up had squished noses, which may have caused some degree of variation my my loadings.

That's common in everything that's not a Match HP or FMJ..
I have case guages, but I figure it's more for the case dimensions than trying to get a chamberable long-ish OAL.

Try this: Line up several j-words standing shoulder to shoulder.
Look across the top, and you'll easily see different heights on the soft tips.
Even in a perfect world--- they will also have slightly different OALs when you load them.


Rather than go crazy because with 10 loaded rounds, they all seem to have slightly different OALs:
For all my loading- I FL size, check it in the case guage, then seat a few to a workable OAL and hand cycle them.
Adjust accordingly, lock down the die-- which seats by pushing on the ogive rather than the bullet tip.

Since the chamber throat & lead focus on the bullet ogive too and that's where the rifling starts,
I set my OAL like that and call it good.

[VariableRecall]

The Wilson gage https://lewilson.com/case-gage is not a direct reading measurement. It is nothing more than a go/no-go gage unless used with a dial indicator and a height gage.

Case Gage
MEASURES MIN/MAX CASE LENGTH AND MIN/MAX HEADSPACE
Part Number: CG-CG-223R

L.E. Wilson Inc. a family owned and operated business since 1927. And the first to produce the Case Gage in 1935
The "Wilson Case Gage" A one piece gage that will check overall length and indicate min/max case length
Measures min/max Headspace. Does not measure body diameters
This gage is intended to be used with fired cases to determine a basis for full length sizing and case trimming.

The RCBS Precision Mic is direct reading and gives you an actual true measurement. https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing...n-mic/564.html

The Hornady Headspace Comparator https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/ does not give you a actual measurement unless it's used in conjunction with a standard like an actual headspace gage.

None of these are designed to be a plunk gage like some of the handgun gages. At one time Wilson made that claim but that was a long time ago.

For 223 plunk gages here are a couple.

https://sheridanengineering.com/prod...unition-gauge/

https://www.jprifles.com/instruction...e/JPCG-223.pdf

The RCBS is the most useful but it's slow and not cheap. The Hornaday when used as a comparator it is the second most useful but when used with a headspace gauge as a standard it is fast and cheaper than the RCBS. The Wilson will tell you if you are within the max/min. of SAAMI specs for headspace and case length and not much more. The Wilson does not tell you actual size or even the amount of shoulder set back like the Hornady or the RCBS.

A good overview here https://bisonballistics.com/articles...rifle-chambers

The LE Wilson gauge you mentioned is the exact one that I had been using. My very scant military 5.56 plunks in there beautifully. I'm not looking to be a precise competitive shooter, but I just want to make sure that the ammo I'm loading is going to be safe to use in my rifle and not cause any issues.

I'm not calling it a perfect device, but it has certainly paid for itself in preventing a variety of headspace issues and made well sure that things generally fit SAAMI's Specs.

As you stated bottleneck cases are somewhat different than straight walled handgun cases. Based on you having several issues I would recommend reviewing a good reloading manual on bottleneck die setup.

I think I have learned my lessons on Bottleneck loading dies the hard way. My .223 Die is the only shouldered case that I have at my disposal. I suppose that I'm the leader of my friend group in the reloading business, and I'd rather do it right when they are the ones looking for advice or guidance to get started.

[1hole]

....but I just want to make sure that the ammo I'm loading is going to be safe to use in my rifle and not cause any issues.

I'm not calling it a perfect device, but it has certainly paid for itself in preventing a variety of headspace issues and made well sure that things generally fit SAAMI's Specs.

But, to "generally fit SAAMI specs" in one thing, to fit your chamber is nother. One of the most valuable things a handloader can do is make ammo that fits HIS CHAMBER, not a plunk gauge.

Shoulder set back is more difficult than it appears because the fired case shoulder has usually been set back when it was fired; setting a shoulder back even more simply increases the headspace so more stretch can occur next time.

I love my few (expensive) RCBS Precision Case Gages but I usually use a Hornady gage to set shoulders and seating; it's quicker, less costly and, bottom line, it actually works just as well. I have ONE Wilson (.30-06) plunk gage that I haven't used in more than 40 years.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

A case gauge is a must for .223 imho. Nothing worse than loading up a few hundred that were not sized quite enough ( ask me how I know ). During normal times I buy factory ball by the case in .223 and 9mm because it is cheap.

[1hole]

Charley, did your plunk gage tell you anything your rifle would not?

[VariableRecall]

A case gauge is a must for .223 imho. Nothing worse than loading up a few hundred that were not sized quite enough ( ask me how I know ). During normal times I buy factory ball by the case in .223 and 9mm because it is cheap.

The funny thing about all this is in the period of time that I'm actually looking to load up, .223 and other essential calibers are quite difficult to find for a price that's fair. A good 80% of my 9mm is stuff that I've reloaded myself. For .223, it's more like 95%. I've got a feeling it's going to be a long time until we can get to a Normal time.
The more I learn and develop my reloading skills now, the better I'm going to be in the future.

Also, with regards to the "Plunk Gage telling me anything my rifle didnt?", I wouldn't call plunk testing with my Upper an efficient method of testing. To be honest I have only put less than 100 rounds through it so far, due to .223 being hard to find, and .223 brass and projectiles being a good deal more expensive then they used to.

My upper is more bulky than my case gage, and it doesn't show as clear of a picture as my case gauge either. I would rather not tempt fate and make my rounds only function in my rifle. The brass that I've picked up comes from a wholly unknown variety of rifles, some of which aren't deformed in the slightest and plunk in the case gauge from the get go, and others sick halfway out. I'd rather take the time to re-size all of the unloaded brass I have remaining so that it may plunk beautifully.

[1hole]

I'd rather take the time to re-size all of the unloaded brass I have remaining so that it may plunk beautifully.

Weeellll ... chambers, sizers and gages all have size tolerances and resizing IS the normal first step of reloading, isn't it? And each of us should make ammo according to our own needs, right?

The question before us here is, is it better to size to fit a gage (which itself has a size tolerance so it's unlikely to exactly match our chamber) or precisely resize to fit our own rifle for the finest possible accuracy. Those who buy or reload ammo by the case are range bangers so meticulous hand loading won't be worth the time it takes to do it.

Bottom line, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' about using a plunker case gage. Plunkers are useful tools to replicate factory ammo and everyone should size cases for his own desires; bulk reloads or truly precise handloads. BUT, I believe we should understand what we're doing and why we're doing it.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Charley, did your plunk gage tell you anything your rifle would not?

I use it when I size cases. Too late when the rifle tells you.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I have never had a clambering issue with factory ball ammo and with a good bolt and barrel I get good accuracy too. But several times over the years I did have problems with hand loads because of insufficient sizing. After using the case guage when setting up for sizing that has not happened again. Also came in handy for checking de linked military 5.56.