The Harbinger books

[Thundarstick]

Do Jews who reject The Christ, Jesus, recipients of salvation?

[Good Cheer]

Wrongly taught according to what scripture?

You again make broad, unfocused statements but once again you give absolutely no support for your position so you leave us with a collection of rational questions. For instance, you say scripture gives conditions about God's promised possession of the land so I say, 'teach me right'; where (book:chapter:verse) can those conditions be found? (IF you actually have that information tell us where it is; if it's there I will read it, apologize for questioning you about it and slide away.)

If you wish, I can indeed show you several places where God made unconditional Jewish homeland promises to the patriarchs. I've read the whole Book a few times (I'm sorta Book taught, know what I mean?) and I know of NO scripture that even hints that God's land promises were conditional and I don't think there is any such scripture. But, if I'm wrong - and I may be - I'm sure willing to learn; if you were taught even one or two verses clearly saying the promised land ever was or is now conditional I want to see them!

Do you really believe the failure of the Jews to live rightly has deprived them of the land God repeatedly and uniquely swore to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants? Do you condemn today's Zionists as bad people for seeking a viable and recognised Jewish home state that would, in fact, be MUCH smaller than what God promised Abe?

If so, do you also believe God favors the various fractured Satanic Muslim land claims over the admittedly still spiritually wayward Jews? If you do, have you considered the fact that most of the bloody fighting in the last part of the Book of Revelation will be centered in Israel and Jerusalem, i.e., the Jewish people still living in their own homeland?

We all know that at the end of the seven years of Tribulation Jesus will return to earth to save the protected remnant of Abraham's seed still living in the original Promised Land, right? (See Psm 83, Ezk 38-39, Daniel and Revelation for most of the end time conflicts.)

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Farm bif, your confusion about Zionist politics is understandable. Many who loosely toss the term around do not really understand it either. I'll try to keep it short:

A "Zionist", properly defined, is simply someone who clings to God's promise to eventually obtain the Jewish people a larger part of the sandbox than they currently have as an eternal homeland (Zion) for the descendants of Abraham.

Muslims usually hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) in the mideast or anywhere else because hating is what they do.

Many of our "educated liberals" hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) anywhere because they've been taught it's smart to oppose both orthodox Jews and Bible believing Christians.

A lot of self proclaimed Christians hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) because they've been taught that's the way all "really smart people" should think. It's easy to do and antisemitism is usually a part of their makeup anyway.

Zionist politics is the diplomatic effort by some folk hoping to politically advance the creation of a real and viable homeland in a land that's surrounded by vipers.

Big thing for Christians to remember is, it's prophecy. The Jews will never get the rest of Zion until the time is right and then there will be nothing anyone can do to stop it.

Our job for now - well, my job anyway - is to do all I can to show approachable Jews the deep, eternal love of their crucified Messiah AND continue to pray for the peace and protection of Jews and Jerusalem.

1hole,
What you're saying there along with the suppositional non sequitur questions and trying to play the besmirching antisemitism card fairly well illustrates the standard issue political Zionists' play book.

As regards being expelled from the land:
What did God account to Abraham prior to executing the agreement? Righteousness.
What gets the people expelled from the land? Unrighteousness.
It's a matter of the people keeping faith with Him or breaking faith with Him.
That is the condition.
And, yes, what is happening is prophecy being fulfilled.

[GhostHawk]

1hole (Snippage)...... Our job for now - well, my job anyway - is to do all I can to show approachable Jews the deep, eternal love of their crucified Messiah AND continue to pray for the peace and protection of Jews and Jerusalem. "

This Sir I agree with, totally.

As for Johnathan Cahn, he is what is known as a Messianic Jew. A Jew who believes in the Messiah. A Jew who follows Christ.
And I happen to believe one that not only follows him, but one who listens to him, converses with him. I believe he is a prophet of sorts for our times.
Everyone else can make up their own minds, and I do not follow anyone blindly. If that makes me a Missouri Mule, so be it.

For me reading his Books Johnathan caused me to question virtually everything I believe, and why I believe it. That is a journey I think more Christians should take.

[ioon44]

I think this is a good read.

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/ch...t-zionism.html

I still don't know what Good Cheers point is.

[farmbif]

well these days I sure do have more appreciation for ma'am-ma and her setting down the law, that there won't be discussion of politics or religion at her dinner table.

[.429&H110]

Saint Paul was plagued by "Judeizers" who added to and denied his gospel.
And so are we, we could ask three Baptists, get five opinions.
Beware the difference between isogesis (bad) and exogesis (good?).

Isogesis is me poking into the Bible what I want to be there according to my biases.
Exogesis is me taking a piece out of the Bible and studying it.

Paul warns Timothy about this.

[1hole]

well these days I sure do have more appreciation for ma'am-ma and her setting down the law, that there won't be discussion of politics or religion at her dinner table.

Mamma was a smart lady. She knew people who are losing rational discussions often get snarky and mean no matter the topic.

[1hole]

Do Jews who reject The Christ, Jesus, recipients of salvation?

If you mean, do Jews who never come to Jesus get to heaven, of course not but salvation is what God (and Christians) want to see happen. The eternal loss of his fellow Hebrews is one of the things that drove Paul to first preach in local synagogues every time he moved.

[1hole]

.... Everyone else can make up their own minds, and I do not follow anyone blindly. If that makes me a Missouri Mule, so be it.

For me reading his Books Johnathan caused me to question virtually everything I believe, and why I believe it. That is a journey I think more Christians should take.

Right on. Carefully and prayerfully examining new theological ideas makes you a true Bible scholar, neither slavish or mulish!

I always test my own beliefs against new (to me) ideas. I usually hold onto what I started with but not always because I'm certainly willing to change my religious beliefs if scripture proves me wrong; that's the only way I know to keep me moving towards the Light. But, it does take scripture to correct me, not someone else's supposed lofty religious words written on vapor.

I sometimes find it bemusing to read some obviously religious folks stoutly proclaiming they have something they can prove but offer no scripture to back up anything they claim; that's truly odd! They're some sort of "religious" people for sure but Paul strongly opposed such folk in his ministry and he warns the disciples of Jesus not to heed those who follow their own paths.

Bottom line, men may misunderstand some things but God's words - scripture - does not contradict itself. If something's added to scripture it's not so and there's nothing in scripture saying any of God's prophecies to the blood line descendants of Abraham are conditional; that's just not the way God works! (See Zec 2:1-13)

[1hole]

1hole, .....

As regards being expelled from the land: What did God account to Abraham prior to executing the agreement? Righteousness.

What gets the people expelled from the land? Unrighteousness.
It's a matter of the people keeping faith with Him or breaking faith with Him. That is the condition.

You wrongly smash together the Jew's temporal blessings and punishments of their meandering spiritual life and God's eternal promise of the homeland - they are NOT the same! Suppose as you might, the land covenant was clearly unilateral and there is NO precondition for Jews eventually having their promised homeland and - if God knew what he was talking about - all of it WILL eventually be theirs, not just the historical fragment of it they have marginally controlled so far.

And, yes, what is happening is prophecy being fulfilled.

Yes, it is. And Jews are in the land once again but they, as a people, are no more "righteous" today than they've ever been. And God has obviously given them a long series of unexpected and undeserved military victories since 1948. So, where does all that leave your unscriptural and - dare I say it? - antisemitic theory about the promised land?

NOTE:
I'll grant that some of my questions were probably off base but they all had to be shots in the dark because you really haven't provided us any real reasons for what you say. Thus, my questions became increasingly frustrated efforts to get something, anything, tangible from you. Your post of today is also quite fuzzy (and with no scripture at all) but it's your best effort yet because this is the first time you've actually said something close to understandable (and you're still Biblically wrong).

We still don't know a thing about what's driving your objection to God's promised homeland goals; i.e., Zionism.

[.429&H110]

The Jewish people made a covenant with God.
So did George Washington.
(We have kept ours about as well as they do)
Marriage is a covenant.

Once you make a promise to God, He will not forget.

[GhostHawk]

......Marriage is a covenant.

Once you make a promise to God, He will not forget.....


Bingo!

I had the Lord ask me why I was committing adultery. I said Lord I am not, I am married to this woman and I love her.

"But she was married before!"

Yes Lord, she was, and he abandoned her when she was with child. And had 4 children with my wife's best friend while she was married to another man.
Lord even I know that there were some situations were divorce was permitted.

"Marriage is a 3 way contract or covenant. The man can tear up his copy, the woman can tear up hers. But the LORD is still sitting on his.

In my case the Lord challenged me to not have intercourse with my wife for a year. Love her, live with her, sleep next to her, but treat her like she was my sister. I am pretty dang positive he thought I would fail. But I did not fail. I became even more loving, supportive, encouraging. And at the end of the year he said, Ok William Thomas, you love her, and you love me. In my eyes you are now married. There will be no more talk of sin or adultery.

But I am pretty sure that while the State may recognize divorce, the Lord does not. At least not in most cases.

[Good Cheer]

"You wrongly smash together the Jew's temporal blessings and punishments of their meandering spiritual life and God's eternal promise of the homeland - they are NOT the same! Suppose as you might, the land covenant was clearly unilateral and there is NO precondition for Jews eventually having their promised homeland and - if God knew what he was talking about - all of it WILL eventually be theirs, not just the historical fragment of it they have marginally controlled so far."

1hole, I already know that you believe in that theory also. I just happen to have concluded that you're wrong about that as well as being wrong in the way you have sought to badger me (see #22 above) for having the nerve to hold conclusions that disagree with you.

[ioon44]

I still don't see what your point is.

[.429&H110]

The book "The Harbinger" is a post-9/11 warning that America is blessed by God, and we have forgotten. The Jewish people are blessed by God, and He blessed them with the Babylonians, then flattened Judea. I am glad my hero Jeremiah finally got out of his pit.

The parallels of our two nations are worth noting.
Both established and blessed by God, victorious in war, then boom.
Their Baal worshipers sacrificed children, worshiped trees, put up totems-Ashterah.
Read the last page of Joshua, turn the page to Judges.
The tribes told Joshua what he wanted to hear.

Our Scientism cult is guvmint sponsored, worshiping their own cleverness, burning our taxes to further prove to themselves there is no god but themselves, while lining their pockets. A rocket surely looks like a phallic totem pole, we have burnt offerings on our gasgrills, and worship our Fords. We believe we are just clever monkeys and treat each other as such.

We cannot say we weren't warned.
I believe we can save America if and only if we join in repentance.
Ninevah was saved, although we only remember Jonah from his whale thing.
Last Christmas did you hear the angel say "With God nothing is impossible"?
There is an independent church near you that prays for America.
Join them. George did.

[ioon44]

Amos 3:7 New Living Translation
Indeed, the Sovereign LORD never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets.

[1hole]

1hole, I already know that you believe in that theory also.

What I "believe" and defend is the Bible, not "theory".

Theories are ideas that have to be tested and proven. I'm saying what the Bible actually says about Zion, not what I would like for it to say; YOU only have theories!

Your promised land error is not critical to any Christian doctrines so, to that extent, your mistake doesn't matter. BUT, on the other hand, your determined repetitions that the Bible says something it does not say IS an important matter because the dependability of scripture - as it's written - does matter, a lot!

I also have a few foggy Bible theories but I do not contest them with anyone because they're only my theories, ideas that I cannot prove from the written word. Therefore, no good would be gained by me insisting that my unprovable theories are better than anyone else's unprovable theories so I rarely mention them.

I've invited you several times to document YOUR "conditional promised land THEORY". You've not yet given us a single thing other than your mistaken "belief" that God made a conditional promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for much sand-land (Zion). But, you haven't proven your "theory" because there is literally no Biblical support for that mistake! (You aren't a Biblically ignorant man, if there were any such scripture you would have posted it long before now.)

I just happen to have concluded that you're wrong about that as well as being wrong in the way you have sought to badger me (see #22 above) for having the nerve to hold conclusions that disagree with you.

I don't believe it's happenstance that you have "concluded" God's unilateral land promises to Abraham and his tribe were conditional. But you're so convinced of the rightness of your "belief" that you firmly stick to conclusions that cannot be Biblically supported. Okay, that's factually wrong but it's not a condition for salvation so you won't go to hell for it!

I'll close by saying your perceived "badgering" on my part has been in respectful opposition to your determined efforts to corrupt scripture by claiming it supports what you have been wrongly taught about God's land promises .... and Zionism. But surely it hasn't taken much courage for you to do that!

[.429&H110]

After all is said and done, "The Harbinger" was written as fiction.
A marvelous endless 14 hour study is "The Truth Project" where
Del Tackett says "I approach the Nature of God with fear and trembling".
Then he dives in feet first.
So do I, but always remembering Who made who.
He is a Big God. He reads your email.
He knew us before we were born.
He Is the uncaused cause, the uncreated Creator.
He Is, worthy of praise, prayer, and worship.
He might save your life, even as He spared mine. Thank You Jesus.
It's your choice.
I am compelled, commanded to share the Good News.

I could add scripture but alas in this age of TL;DR I am the only Bible that some will hear.
The kids don't read anyway. Cancel culture may well stop me yet and break up America.
The state by law closed my church for a virus and we cannot even discuss it.
Imagine if George Washington was told he couldn't go to church...

[1hole]

......Marriage is a covenant.
--------------------------
Once you make a promise to God, He will not forget.....
--------------------------
But I am pretty sure that while the State may recognize divorce, the Lord does not. At least not in most cases.

Yes, but .... I wonder .... does God accept State sanctioned human marriage as an eternally binding agreement (covenant) in the spiritual sense of "the two shall become one flesh"? (It's an honest question because we know both valid and invalid marriages existed long before government injected itself into our bedrooms!)

I don't have the answer to that question but I have come to realize God doesn't automatically accept everything human government sanctions (maybe including "marriage"?) to be legally binding on Him OR his people! (Like, unrestrained abortion is still legal isn't it?)

[.429&H110]

I believe in order to be married you need a triangle:
Husband-Wife-Jesus, unbendable, unbreakable.
You stand on hallowed ground before witnesses and make your oath before God.
Anything else is a contract, not a covenant.

A contract has a beginning, end, and terms. Contracts must expire.
A covenant puts you all in, your soul, and all you have. Forever.
I am sorry if you have had a marriage that ended.

We have trapeze people swinging from relationship to relationship trying to fill the God-shaped hole in their heart, and nothing fits because they deny the hole is there in the first place. This is an important message for kids because they can't learn it from the internet or by example. The most useful thing a church can do is to teach the kids that they must not marry on a whim, and keep their pants on.