While getting into casting I would like to retrace some of the footstep of famous people and even you guys with bullets that are early examples. So far I have and really really love my Ideal 358429 Keith mold but it has me wondering what are some of the iconic earlier molds that I might not know to look for?
Could you guys list what caliber and purpose they are meant for?
Last edited by Stopsign32v; 08-03-2021 at 07:05 PM.
257420 and 358156 both have been around quite a while
Could you guys list what they are? I know what the 358156 is but no idea of the 257420
maybe pressman will chime in here
he is one person that when I read what he has to say about historic equipment I feel I can trust it 100%
if you look in the section titled molds maintenance and designs there is a link to historic ideal and Lyman bullet molds
The Lyman 311284. This was invented for the 30-40 Krag and is still around today. Even though it is a cast boolit, it can match the performance of the 220 grain jacketed bullet in that cartridge. If I'm not mistaken, it was also one of the first cast bullets that used a gas check.
I believe some of the 45 cal rifle bullets were among the earliest and may be had today, if not til fairly recently.
That is one I was thinking of, one of the first gas check designs. It was originally the 308284 (I've got one).Originally Posted by 405grain
The 454190 was a ~250 grain meant for the 45 Colt. The 427098 was the .44 WCF boolit, some early ones were stamped 424098 I believe.
Robert
457424 and 457425 and 427330 these are 45-70 bullits, very old and proven. There are several 38-55 designs that are very old, as are some 32-40. I'm sure there are a couple for every caliber out there. If Lymnan still offers them, or did until recently, they're proven designs.
358446 was the 358156 w/o the GC.
#358477 is a 150 gr. SWC similar to the 358429 except lighter (shorter nose).
358439 is the HP version of 358429.
#452432 is supposed to be a 238gr. SWC (mine weigh more): it is similar to a short nose 452424 designed for .45 ACP loads in revolvers (very accurate in ACP & .45 Colt).
454424 was the original version of the current 452424 to suit bore of early .45 Colts.
The number after the size number tells you when the mould was designed. Thus 358311 would be older than 358429, and both would be older than 357446.
311291 gas checked, 31141 gas checked, 3111284 gas checked, 311316 gas checked, 3118 no gas check,457125 plain base, 457124 plain base.
1st three are 30 caliber
2nd two are for 32 caliber like 32-20
3rd are for the 45/70.
That's all I can think of at the present. Frank
308291
This link should give you some good info
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohland/Cast_B...ml#490_up_mold
3118 is an old +Ideal mold now called 311008. Many of the 357446 mold I have seen have undersized drive bands and only shoot well pushed hard. 429421 and 454424 or 452424 are the Elmer Keith designs comparable to the 358429. Get on line and look for Lyman manuals before #42 or so. They can show a lot of what was popular 70 years ago and why.
[The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze
Get a copy of the Lyman Handbook Of Cast Bullets #1. It has thumbnail descriptions of the various designs by Barlow, Anderson, Kephart, Hudson, Keith et al as copied from the earlier Ideal Handbooks, plus the later developments by Thompson, Loverin, et al.
Ohland (who seems to have stopped posting stuff) copied a lot of the descriptions from the earlier Lyman Handbook #28 into posts but the pictures seem to have disappeared.
Any of the John Barlow designs.
Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.
If you find a four or five digit serial number on an Ideal mould (such as the aforementioned 3118, designed for the 32-20) or the modernized Lyman number (like 311008) of the same design, that’s an old one. Initially the cherries were numbered as designed, so four or five digit designs were very early and low six digit (XXX1XX) came next. Somewhere about the time Lyman took over that went out the window.
Somewhere on my laptop I have a numerical listing, but I’m on my oldest iPad right now, so I’ll have to add that citation later - unless somebody beats me to it!
Froggie
"It aint easy being green!"
Take a long hard look at Lyman # 358432 in the 160 gr. form . A rather clever Wadcutter design that has proven very accurate in all of my 38 special and 357 magnum handguns .
Not many know about it , I picked up a used single cavity , when I realized how it liked to make tiny groups ... I was interested ...when I saw NOE was making the design and had 3 and 4 cavity moulds in stock ... I ordered a three cavity before I realized what I had done ... 3 cavities beat 1 all to hell and back . The 160 gr. version is my all time favorite 38 special boolit .
For the 357 Magnum ... Skeeter Skelton wrote about the Lyman #358156 SWC , it has a gas check but at 357 Magnum velocities ... that's not a bad thing . It also has two crimp grooves for doing things we did back then when 357 magnum brass was hard to find .
Lyman has stopped making a lot of moulds ... they hardly have much of a selection . I am glad NOE has re-created a lot of their discontinued designs ... some , like the #358432 are too good to let die .
You mentioned 38 cal . and over the last 50 years I've lost count of how many 38 / 357 moulds I've bought and tried . Two other classics are # 358429 (170 gr.) Keith SWC and #358431 (160 gr.) Keith SWC . I hate to say it but I found the 160 gr, K-SWC to be just a little more accurate than the 170 gr. K-SWC ... But that may just be me ... you may prefer the 170 gr. K-SWC .
NOE has re-created some of Elmer Keiths designs ... I even grabbed a Elmer Keith Signature Series Mould in 41 Magnum ... a 237 gr. Keith SWC ... it's sweet !
Last edited by gwpercle; 08-04-2021 at 07:06 PM. Reason: design #358156 ...not 358157
Certified Cajun
Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
" Let's Go Brandon !"
314299 and 311299 designed for the 303 British but work great in the 30-06, 3040 krag, 308 win etc
http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohland/Cast_B...criptions.html
Ideal 4 digit calibers are the oldest non tong molds
Regards
John
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| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
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| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
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| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
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