RepackboxTitan ReloadingMidSouth Shooters SupplyADvertise here
Reloading UKRotoMetals2Inline FabricationLee Precision

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33

Thread: Would building a derringer barrel chambered for 410 shot shells be legal ?

  1. #21
    Banner Sponsor

    lar45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2,187
    Hawes 45 Colt barrel
    https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/81290E
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	81290.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	16.0 KB 
ID:	286960

    Redhawk Hunter barrel
    https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1553530
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1553530.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	17.5 KB 
ID:	286961

    30" Octagon 45 cal barrel blank $61.25
    https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/584510
    no picture.

    EMF 7.5" 45 Colt barrel $41.50
    https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1560290
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1560290.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	10.6 KB 
ID:	286962

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lenawee County , MI
    Posts
    900
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	994012FE-4241-401B-AB85-497C7471094C.jpeg 
Views:	5 
Size:	80.1 KB 
ID:	286969Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D032064F-71B5-40C9-A9CD-4DAAD8219054.jpeg 
Views:	5 
Size:	70.6 KB 
ID:	286968Thanks everyone for the help and clarification of the rifling needed. Now I need to find a piece of bar stock to use I donít think I will attempt using stainless as drilling the bores would be difficult. This is what the simple barrels look like.

    Jedman
    Last edited by Jedman; 08-02-2021 at 06:37 PM.

  3. #23
    Banner Sponsor

    lar45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2,187
    https://www.speedymetals.com/searchs...140&Shape=Flat

    I've used Speedy Metals in the past when I needed a small piece of 4140 for building gun parts.
    This is an ejector for an over/under shotgun that we couldn't find spare parts for.







  4. #24
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    2,346
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedman View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	994012FE-4241-401B-AB85-497C7471094C.jpeg 
Views:	5 
Size:	80.1 KB 
ID:	286969Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D032064F-71B5-40C9-A9CD-4DAAD8219054.jpeg 
Views:	5 
Size:	70.6 KB 
ID:	286968Thanks everyone for the help and clarification of the rifling needed. Now I need to find a piece of bar stock to use I don’t think I will attempt using stainless as drilling the bores would be difficult. This is what the simple barrels look like.

    Jedman
    416 stainless is the type used for rifle barrel and machines easy.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    2,346
    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    The smooth bore barrel will not be legal.
    It's just like the flare gun adapters. If they have rifling, they are legal. If they are smooth bore, they are considered short barreled shotguns.
    You will need some rifling. I would suggest about 1/2" of rifling.
    I read an article about a revolver Bowen built for Ross Seyfried years ago. It was a Ruger 357 maximum that had a new cylinder and 45 cal barrel put on. He bored out all but the last 3/4" or 1/2" of rifling so they could play with shot loads. The short section of rifling acted as a choke and kept the shot patterns tight enough to hit thrown clays. There was still enough rifling to stabilize a regular bullet as well.
    You might check www.GunPartsCorp.com , they used to have short sections of 45 cal barrel blanks. Or maybe check with one of the pistol smiths for a take off 45 Colt barrel from a Ruger or whatever.

    If you could make a rifling button and press it through some 4140 or 4130 DOM tube, that would be very cool also.
    As noted in my earlier post, a pistol that never had a shoulder stock can have a smooth bore. Now making flare gun into a cartridge pistol comes under the manufacture of a firearm. Might want to ask ATF about it and get the truth. From what I have heard you can make a pistol for yourself but you can't make one for someone ells or sell it. Don't know how true it is, there's lots of miss information out there.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Handloader109's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,854
    Legally you have a pistol. You do not have a shotgun with or without rifling. You would have a pistol that fires shotshells.
    But I would work to try and cut some grooves in case someone wanted to examine the gun and questioned it. The atf can twist however they want.....
    With a couple of three grooves you would be legal. Even if they were a half a thou deep, they would be grooves.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    4,686
    .

    Smooth-Bore, Shot-Pistol

    Notice: All "Any Other Weapons" have a mandatory tax of $200.00 for making; the transfer of an "Any Other Weapons" is an additional $5.00.

    Classification - Any Other Weapon, Distinctive Characteristics

    A pistol having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire shot shells.


    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...arms-section-8

    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    197
    If you can, have a look at how Altor rifles their barrels...They use a very shallow, almost non-existent, microgrove arrangement (4 grooves @ 0.014″ wide and 0.005″ deep). These tiny groves are not enough to really stabilize a bullet (tons of keyholes), but it's enough to meet the criteria of a rifled barrel and make the firearm a handgun per ATF.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    12,854
    With 3" barrels and 3" shells the rifling wouldn't matter as the case mouth will be almost right at the muzzle when fired

  10. #30
    Boolit Master JHeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    WA state/ BC mountains
    Posts
    608
    I think that type of barrel is called a "Paradox Gun", was patented by Fosbery and the patent sold to H&H in the 1880s. Does ATF have a policy on Paradox Guns?

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    I have a Bond in .410/.45Colt. In the last 1/2" or so of the barrels is rifling.
    That might be how they make it legal as a handgun instead of a (too short of a barreled) shotgun.

    That way, chambering .410 shotgun shells, is just a coincidence they also fit in the .45Colt handgun.
    Being able to chamber and shoot 45lc is how Taurus and then S&W got by the regulations when they brought out the "Judge" type revolvers.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master JHeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    WA state/ BC mountains
    Posts
    608
    H&H still makes them.

    https://hollandandholland.com/guns/the-paradox-gun

    Tomorrow I will have my valet phone H&H and order a Paradox Gun with 16" barrels. If ATF objects I will throw my valet under the bus. I wanted a new one anyway.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lenawee County , MI
    Posts
    900
    My idea of making this is just a fun project that will cost me little and give me something to play with. Making a broach to cut some shallow strait grooves in the bores should be one of the easiest parts to do. The more I think of this project the more I change my mind on what I would chamber it in. I have strait walled brass such as 445 SM that I could use and load 2 .429 round balls so it wouldn’t be considered a shotgun and I can make the barrels as long as I want. I know with the small two fingered grip it has the recoil will be hard to control so it may not make a lot of sense. Maybe use 30-30 brass blown out strait and use 3 balls around .390. ??? So many ideas.

    Jedman

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check