Would building a derringer barrel chambered for 410 shot shells be legal ?

[lar45]

Hawes 45 Colt barrel
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/81290E


Redhawk Hunter barrel
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1553530


30" Octagon 45 cal barrel blank $61.25
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/584510
no picture.

EMF 7.5" 45 Colt barrel $41.50
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1560290

[Jedman]

Attachment 286969Attachment 286968Thanks everyone for the help and clarification of the rifling needed. Now I need to find a piece of bar stock to use I don’t think I will attempt using stainless as drilling the bores would be difficult. This is what the simple barrels look like.

Jedman

[lar45]

https://www.speedymetals.com/searchs...140&Shape=Flat

I've used Speedy Metals in the past when I needed a small piece of 4140 for building gun parts.
This is an ejector for an over/under shotgun that we couldn't find spare parts for.

[John Taylor]

Attachment 286969Attachment 286968Thanks everyone for the help and clarification of the rifling needed. Now I need to find a piece of bar stock to use I don’t think I will attempt using stainless as drilling the bores would be difficult. This is what the simple barrels look like.

Jedman

416 stainless is the type used for rifle barrel and machines easy.

[John Taylor]

The smooth bore barrel will not be legal.
It's just like the flare gun adapters. If they have rifling, they are legal. If they are smooth bore, they are considered short barreled shotguns.
You will need some rifling. I would suggest about 1/2" of rifling.
I read an article about a revolver Bowen built for Ross Seyfried years ago. It was a Ruger 357 maximum that had a new cylinder and 45 cal barrel put on. He bored out all but the last 3/4" or 1/2" of rifling so they could play with shot loads. The short section of rifling acted as a choke and kept the shot patterns tight enough to hit thrown clays. There was still enough rifling to stabilize a regular bullet as well.
You might check www.GunPartsCorp.com , they used to have short sections of 45 cal barrel blanks. Or maybe check with one of the pistol smiths for a take off 45 Colt barrel from a Ruger or whatever.

If you could make a rifling button and press it through some 4140 or 4130 DOM tube, that would be very cool also.

As noted in my earlier post, a pistol that never had a shoulder stock can have a smooth bore. Now making flare gun into a cartridge pistol comes under the manufacture of a firearm. Might want to ask ATF about it and get the truth. From what I have heard you can make a pistol for yourself but you can't make one for someone ells or sell it. Don't know how true it is, there's lots of miss information out there.

[Handloader109]

Legally you have a pistol. You do not have a shotgun with or without rifling. You would have a pistol that fires shotshells.
But I would work to try and cut some grooves in case someone wanted to examine the gun and questioned it. The atf can twist however they want.....
With a couple of three grooves you would be legal. Even if they were a half a thou deep, they would be grooves.

[pietro]

.

Smooth-Bore, Shot-Pistol

Notice: All "Any Other Weapons" have a mandatory tax of $200.00 for making; the transfer of an "Any Other Weapons" is an additional $5.00.

Classification - Any Other Weapon, Distinctive Characteristics

A pistol having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire shot shells.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...arms-section-8

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[kerplode]

If you can, have a look at how Altor rifles their barrels...They use a very shallow, almost non-existent, microgrove arrangement (4 grooves @ 0.014″ wide and 0.005″ deep). These tiny groves are not enough to really stabilize a bullet (tons of keyholes), but it's enough to meet the criteria of a rifled barrel and make the firearm a handgun per ATF.

[country gent]

With 3" barrels and 3" shells the rifling wouldn't matter as the case mouth will be almost right at the muzzle when fired

[JHeath]

I think that type of barrel is called a "Paradox Gun", was patented by Fosbery and the patent sold to H&H in the 1880s. Does ATF have a policy on Paradox Guns?

[Traffer]

I have a Bond in .410/.45Colt. In the last 1/2" or so of the barrels is rifling.
That might be how they make it legal as a handgun instead of a (too short of a barreled) shotgun.

That way, chambering .410 shotgun shells, is just a coincidence they also fit in the .45Colt handgun.

Being able to chamber and shoot 45lc is how Taurus and then S&W got by the regulations when they brought out the "Judge" type revolvers.

[JHeath]

H&H still makes them.

https://hollandandholland.com/guns/the-paradox-gun

Tomorrow I will have my valet phone H&H and order a Paradox Gun with 16" barrels. If ATF objects I will throw my valet under the bus. I wanted a new one anyway.

[Jedman]

My idea of making this is just a fun project that will cost me little and give me something to play with. Making a broach to cut some shallow strait grooves in the bores should be one of the easiest parts to do. The more I think of this project the more I change my mind on what I would chamber it in. I have strait walled brass such as 445 SM that I could use and load 2 .429 round balls so it wouldn’t be considered a shotgun and I can make the barrels as long as I want. I know with the small two fingered grip it has the recoil will be hard to control so it may not make a lot of sense. Maybe use 30-30 brass blown out strait and use 3 balls around .390. ??? So many ideas.

Jedman