22LR reloading powder charge

[AlHunt]

I'm awaiting a crimp die from Old West and I'm ready to start assembling 22LR with my Fedarm cases and 38 grain bullets from my NOE mold, which I'm powder coating. Finally.

I have Titegroup, AA2, AA7 and W748 in stock.

I'm thinking to use .5, 1.0 and maybe 1.5 grains of the Titegroup.

Anyone have any experience, thoughts or actual data?

I'm going to start with my 4" barrel K-22. Just the primer will drive the powder coated bullet out of the barrel.

[rancher1913]

do a site search on member "traffer" (might be misspelled but it will still work) he has numerous write ups on reloading 22lr.

[John Boy]

1.7 to 2.0gr Bullseye.
4.5gr Swiss Null-B or FFFFg

[AlHunt]

1.7 to 2.0gr Bullseye.
4.5gr Swiss Null-B or FFFFg

Bullseye, Titegroup and AA2 are all pretty close in burn rates. The latter 2 I have.

Ive also seen that 3N37 is touted as having been developed for the 22LR and it's one powder away from AA7. I can't remember the company right off, but they're selling machined bullets and die sets, and they have some pretty crazy looking load data that I won't even quote. I think it includes AA7.

[AlHunt]

I have not used AA2 or Titegroup But...
I have calculated these in QuickLoad.
AA2 is a TAD slower than Titegroup.
The faster the powder the less you want to use...
1.5gn of AA2 will give you about 1250fps with a 40gn bullet depending on the depth of crimp.
1.5gn of Titegroup will push a 40 gn about 1350fps.
My advise is to start with 1.3 gn of AA2 or 1.2gn of Titegroup.
Run them through a chronograph.
When you start to get up to 1400+fps the cases will start showing signs of overpressure.
These thin cases have a very abrupt pressure ceiling. 50fps will make a big difference in the 1400fps range.
I think Tite Group would be easier to meter in those small amounts but whatever you think.
(EDIT) I just noticed you are running these in a pistol. My calculations are for a 22" barrel.
You are going to have a lot of unburnt powder in a pistol unless you do a tight crimp. I have shot reloads in pistols but never tested loads or chronoed them. If I were loading for a pistol test I would start with 1.3gn of Titegroup and see what it chrono's at. My guess is that the bullet is going to be exiting the barrel before the big pressure spike...that is a GUESS.
Again I think you will need a good crimp for a pistol. (the crimp allows the pressure to build before the bullet leaves the case which seems to enable these loads to burn to a more complete state)
WEAR EYE PROTECTION when testing these.
Let us know how the tests go.

Thank you VERY much. I've read a lot of your stuff on these 22's and I know you know what you're talking about.

I don't need 1400 FPS, I just want to make reliable, accurate ammo. I do not have a chronometer. I'll just stay away from the top end. I have plenty of various factory ammo if I feel the need for speed.

I'll report back to this thread in a week or two once I get to play with it some. I have a few different 22's I can try out.

I appreciate everyone's feedback.

[uscra112]

Ever give a thought to Herco?

[AlHunt]

Ever give a thought to Herco?

Not Herco but a couple others I saw recommended along the way.

The obvious problem is actually getting powders. I have 4 or 5 pounds of both AA2 and Titegroup. 3N37 claims to have been developed specifically for 22LR. A little pricey but if I have to go on a quest for powder, that would be high on my list. Availability is the big driving factor at the moment.

[uscra112]

I did some comparisons with 3N37 in Quickload, which is what led me to Herco. It's only slightly faster than 3N37, and being significantly slower than Bullseye it has potential for more velocity (in rifle-length barrels) at the same or lower peak pressure in my .25 Stevens loading plans.

As you say, however, availability is everything. I'm lucky (or foresighted) enough to have bought a pound of Herco about ten years ago, and then never opened it.

[AlHunt]

Well, the Old West crimping die arrived today and I just had to load a few to see how it worked. In case anyone is curious, it's a modified Lee FCD and a custom shell holder for the 22.

Started with the Titegroup and ran:
1 round @ 1.0 grains
2 rounds @ 1.2 grains
3 rounds @ 1.3 grains
3 rounds @ 1.2 grains

Compared, subjectively, to Winchester 40 grain High Velocity RN

1 grain was a bunny fart and extracted fine
1.2 felt recoil was somewhat lighter than the Winchester
1.3 grains was comparable

Both 1.2 and 1.3 exhibited slightly difficult extraction.

All levels threw burning powder out the muzzle, as predicted by Traffer. The Winchester did not.

The base of the 1.0 round expanded comparably to the Winchester. 1.2 and 1.3 both expanded a couple thousands more.

The revolver hasn't been cleaned well in a month of Sundays so before I play any more it'll get a thorough cleaning to include scrubbing out the chambers.

The only part that bothers me is that 1/3 of the Fedarm primed cases required a second strike.

Definitely a slow process but I expected that. It reminds me of my earliest days reloading, lubing and sizing my bullets in the Lee hammer through sizer, casting in a single cavity Ideal mold and weighing each powder charge because who could afford one of those fancy powder measure things ... ?

So it begins.

[AlHunt]

Very good. thanks for the info.
I would be curious to see pictures of the loaded cartridges. Crimp is important and I have experimented with different depths. Curious to see how deep these guys are crimped.
Also, you may have seen that I make swaging dies for 22lr. My shop (mini lathe in the living room) is shut down right now because we moved to an apartment where I can't get away with machining...lol. But maybe down the road if you keep an interest we can work out getting you set up with a swaging setup.

I did see where you made the crimp die from a FCD. Then I saw now much time you spent and I decided 60 bucks wasn't so bad .. And yes, I'd be quite interested in swaging, I've looked at your info on that, too. But it's beyond any gear and equipment I have. I'm jealous of your lathe.

I'll spend some quality time with the digital camera tomorrow and get pics of the fired rounds, make up a few more so you can see my crimp and anything else that seems relevant.

I appreciate you looking at my project.

[cameron.meeks]

Herco is also dirty. May want to look elsware because of fowling

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[wbbh]

I'd try VV N310, it very fast and clean burning.

[AlHunt]

OK, it took me to today to get some pics and the digital camera gave me problems so these are cell phone pics.

The pics show how the cases expanded and my crimp on a couple of ones I loaded today with AA2. I tried 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4 grains. Subjectively, 1.0 had roughly the same recoil as the aforementioned Winchester factory High Velocity. 1.2 and 1.4 escalated a little but not much. AA2 at all levels threw an equivalent amount of burning powder from the muzzle and was on par with the factory ammo.

I have not yet measured the case heads for the AA2 rounds. I'll update this post when I do.

Extraction was again an issue with the handcrafted stuff but I have not cleaned the revolver so the jury is still out on that issue.

[AlHunt]

I think you should adjust the crimp location so they crimp right where the bullet and case meet.
Attachment 286983Attachment 286984

No, I wasn't loving it either. Below is my new and improved crimp. I crimped until they stopped spinning and then a touch more. I have the little dimples made by the modified FCD.

I loaded a half dozen today after scrubbing the chambers of the old revolver and fired them. Same problems, FT Fire of 1 in 3 and sticky extraction. I loaded a magazine full for the Ruger Standard Model and got 100% ignition. They fed and extracted fine. I'll get a new hammer spring for that 66 year old revolver.

As soon as I find a magazine for my old rifle, I'll run a few in there and see how it goes.

Looks like I'll load up 50 or so of AA2 @ 1.2 grains and do some accuracy testing.

[uscra112]

For what it's worth. when Stevens introduced the .22 Long Rifle for their family of single shots, it wasn't crimped at all. Only when the round caught on with makers of repeaters did the ammo companies start to crimp it, so the bullet wouldn't come loose in the magazine. And that's still the only reason to crimp it.

[uscra112]

Might want to check the firing pin protrusion of that revolver. It doesn't take much of a blow to fire the .22LR.

[AlHunt]

For what it's worth. when Stevens introduced the .22 Long Rifle for their family of single shots, it wasn't crimped at all. Only when the round caught on with makers of repeaters did the ammo companies start to crimp it, so the bullet wouldn't come loose in the magazine. And that's still the only reason to crimp it.

Yeah, I was vaguely aware of the long history of the 22LR. In my particular case, the bullets would slip out of the case with no crimp at all.

Good thought to check the firing pin on the revolver. It's fired ... well, a lot of rounds in 67 years. Thinking about it, I did have 1 or 2 FTFs with the Winchester too. Of course, I wanted to blame the ammo ....

[uscra112]

We who shoot the obsolete .32 Long (Colt) rimfires have the same problem. If the heel isn't a snug fit in the case, which is a tricky thing to achieve, we use a drop of blue Loctite. Superglue ought to work, too. Not crimping will of course affect the powder burn, but it also avoids any distortion of the heel.

[uscra112]

Crimping didn't start with the change to smokeless.

[uscra112]

I suppose chamber form factor must have something to do with it. Competition chambers that jam the bullet into the lands would work with less (or no) crimp.