win 86 carrier link not in blr 71 diag.?

[hard88cast]

gathering info on taking my browning 71 to 50cal. Noticed in the parts diagram between win 86 and blr 71, the blr 71 is missing the carrier link. Thought I had read somewhere the link was left out of the blr mainly cause it was a single cartridge rifle.

Is the link needed in order to convert the 71 to 50 cal?

Also interesting, i just tried to feed one of my 45-90 cartridges into the blr 71 loading gate and that cartridge wouldnt even go 1/2 way in, any idea?

thanks

[Beaver Scout]

You are asking for nothing but problems converting that 348 to 50 caliber. Loading, feeding, magazine tube coming loose from shooting unless you put a barrel band around it. I'm assuming you mean the original 1886 Winchesters vs M71 Winchester/Browning M71. The carriers are different, no link from the lever and is shorter, coil spring hammer with a bushing going through the frame and hammer, tapered lugs vs straight lugs. I recommend you call Doug Turnbull and talk to him about his 475 Turnbull and the problems he had making it.
Keep the 348 and don't look back, unless you got piles of money to burn.

[indian joe]

Different frame similar challenge
I re built a model 92 in 25/20 calibre - turned it into a really nice 38/40 - just a downsized version of what you are thinking about - This Browning family of levers is a highly complex and sophisticated design. Once you start you quickly find that every little nick and cut and hump and bump in the gizzards of that action does something important and until you get it all done just right the thing wont function how it was sposed to (if at all).

My project started out with an action worth only a few hundred bucks . I have a B71 in 348, often read about these conversions, "yeah that would be fun" - I do like big holes in the end of rifled barrels - proly gonna pass on this one tho.

What about a 348 ackley improved ?

or a trapper length Uberti 1976 in 50/95 (top end SAFE smokeless loads should go close to 1800fps x350grain?) --not enough smack?

I have the three big Winchester levers (in repros) model 71, 76, 86, if I was challenged to unload a few rounds in a hurry i would pick the 76 hands down - slicker, softer action, easier to lever, quicker for sure.....................

[hard88cast]

You two make some good points to all this.
Not sure if anyone has noticed but I am stuck in a procrastinating mode due to many responses telling me to not go down this rabbit whole. Along with not knowing where to start, cant find dies(can locate 50alaskan dies though).

And I can already tell just by studying schematics that,
""every little nick and cut and hump and bump in the gizzards of that action does something important and until you get it all done just right the thing wont function how it was sposed to (if at all). ""

And actually the 71 i have is low serial number in Brand new shape, not a mark on it, which makes me afraid to take it apart and ruining it cause i dont have a set of blueprints to follow.

thanks for the heads up.

[JFE]

If a big 50 is an itch you need to scratch you should hand the rifle over to one of several capable gunsmiths you have in the US and let them do the work. I have one that was converted locally and it feeds WFN pills loaded to 2.80”. The originals in 50 Ex only cycled short nose pills with a narrow meplat (and had slow twists).

However, if your objective is to launch a 500gr pill at 1700-1800 FPS, it is possible to do this in a 45/70 using a modern 1886 rifle. My Browning 1886 cycles 45/70 shells loaded to 2.80”. With the right bore riding nose design you can achieve those ballistics using the stock throat. A mould like Lyman’s 462560 has a bore riding nose (about 550 gr with lube and GC fitted) and has the crimp groove in the right place for crimping in a 45/70 case. It feeds and cycles freely in my Browning 1886. It’s not a 50/110 but it’s still a pretty powerful combination. To my mind the 45/70 in an 1886 rifle offers a lot of loading flexibility.

A few comments about recoil and the toll it takes on the mag tube components. Eventually even heavily loaded 45/70’s need work on the mag tube to stop them parting company with the barrel. After a few decades of heavy loads, my 1895 Marlin needed the parts that hold the mag tube to the barrel refitted. Eventually the dovetails could not hold the parts in place. The dovetails were peened back and the parts silver soldered in place - they haven’t moved since the re-fit. Turnbull apparently does this on his conversions.

[indian joe]

You two make some good points to all this.
Not sure if anyone has noticed but I am stuck in a procrastinating mode due to many responses telling me to not go down this rabbit whole. Along with not knowing where to start, cant find dies(can locate 50alaskan dies though).

And I can already tell just by studying schematics that,
""every little nick and cut and hump and bump in the gizzards of that action does something important and until you get it all done just right the thing wont function how it was sposed to (if at all). ""

And actually the 71 i have is low serial number in Brand new shape, not a mark on it, which makes me afraid to take it apart and ruining it cause i dont have a set of blueprints to follow.

thanks for the heads up.

Two major tricks in dismantling these
1) pin the coil mainspring under tension and pay attention to which way it goes in
2) loosen the screw holding the carrier spring (big stubborn screw on the underside of the top tang) - needs a decent quality 90 degree screwdriver. dont do this one and on re assembly you are trying to force the hammer screw in against the spring pressure and risk boogering the threads.

I bet there is a video out there someplace but it IS NOT a 1892 - they look like father and son - but strip down and re assemble is different - do this a few times and you will no longer be scared of it. If you take on a conversion yourself you will get really good at doing this.

[indian joe]

re scratching itches
none of us "needs" the guns we have
so ......if we want something that looks crazy to others
1) can we do it ourself (me - yeah I like the challenge)
2) or can we fund it without getting a divorce or starving our offspring (my problem here is twofold - I am a cheapskate and dont know who to trust messing with my cowboy guns - more the second than the first really)

[hard88cast]

after much research and comments from you folks, i have seen more and more difficulties in making the b71 into a 50cal. Even finding a barrel has become kind of a nightmare, so much so that i am thinking of changing directions.

Thinking of selling my pristine b71 and buying a win/miroku, in 45-90. That already has the octagon barrel/mag tube and parts. Just cut the barrel down to 22" add a new dovetail for front sight and mag hanger, threaded barrel is already there, call jes about reboring it to 50, hopefully there is enough meat to do that and still be able to add the new dovetails needed. Already has the crescent butt..Hopefully remove the thumb safety and cut in 1/2 cock and add a marbles peep. send it out for some interior work or try and whittle it down myself.

now this sounds so much easier then the b71.

Ok, lets here yay or nay...........

[indian joe]

after much research and comments from you folks, i have seen more and more difficulties in making the b71 into a 50cal. Even finding a barrel has become kind of a nightmare, so much so that i am thinking of changing directions.

Thinking of selling my pristine b71 and buying a win/miroku, in 45-90. That already has the octagon barrel/mag tube and parts. Just cut the barrel down to 22" add a new dovetail for front sight and mag hanger, threaded barrel is already there, call jes about reboring it to 50, hopefully there is enough meat to do that and still be able to add the new dovetails needed. Already has the crescent butt..Hopefully remove the thumb safety and cut in 1/2 cock and add a marbles peep. send it out for some interior work or try and whittle it down myself.

now this sounds so much easier then the b71.

Ok, lets here yay or nay...........

If ya havent already ---go look at Jeremy Arnolds utube videos, he has pushed one of those (45/90 japchester) to the limit with heavy boolits and big loads, done the same with a 50-110 (6000ft lbs) you might get some good tips - bet that itch gets a lot more itchy too ...........

[JFE]

hardcast88,

I believe the book ‘Winchester Lever Legacy’ by Clyde Snooky Williamson has some info on conversions. Whether it covers the 50/110 I don’t know as I don’t have a copy but heard that some info is provided. You might want to ask around to see who might have a copy and try to find out what info is provided. If you do locate any useful info it would be useful to include it on this post for future enquiries.

On your dilemma of whether to use the B-71 donor you have in hand or purchase a late model Winoku in 45/90, either has pros and cons. If the additional safety and rebounding hammer are an issue for you, if it were my decision, I’d base the conversion on the B-71 you already have and avoid all the extra lawyer safety gear.

My understanding is that the ‘S’ hook was used in the 1886 to control the OAL that fed through the rifle. As you will be aware the 1886 was available in various length cartridges. When Winchester decided to ‘improve’ the 1886 design, the ‘S’ hook was dropped in the M-71 as the 348 was the only length cartridge that was to be released in the M-71. I don’t think it’s absence will be a show stopper if you go ahead and decide to use the B-71.

[hard88cast]

JFE.
Great info. Looking for that book now. Wish I new more about lever actions, but am a beginner, thats why I am quite confused
About the whole conversion.
That s hook was just one of the unknown thoughts in my head, thanks for clearing that up.