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Thread: A Different Lever Action

  1. #1
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    A Different Lever Action

    Greetings, fellow lever action fans.

    First the guessing game:

    What make and model of rifle is shown in the first photo below?

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    Too easy! Obviously a Marlin. But turn it around to view the other side and obviously it's a...

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    Click photos to enlarge them.

    Mossberg Model 472. The side thumb safety is the giveaway. These rifles were produced in several variations by Mossberg and sold under their own brand name, and also for Montgomery Ward as Western Field, and for Western Auto Co. as Revelation. The rifle shown here is actually branded "Revelation".

    Back in the early 1980s I possessed a brand new one in the box. I only shot it once, probably 5 rounds or so, but it impressed me as being extremely accurate. After a couple of years I came to the realization that I was "heavy" on levers, with a large assortment of Win. and Marlin rifles, and sold it. I've sold very few of my personal guns over the years, and before doing so I was always pretty certain I wouldn't wish I hadn't done so at a later date. But this rifle was one of the few exceptions that I wished I had back again. One unique feature, among several, of this rifle's design is that when the lever is dropped the trigger disconnects from the sear and goes with the lever.

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    I look through Gunbroker.com with some regularity, and would occasionally do a search for Mossberg 472. They seem to seldom come up for sale, and when they do they're often used and abused. To me, that says a lot about a firearm when those who have them don't want to let go of them. Finally I ran across this one from Temple, TX. It had it's fair share or nicks and scars on the stocks, but the metal wasn't bad. The butt plate had been replaced with a Fajen plate, and the grip cap with an old and well worn Neidner metal cap. The original was a black plastic white line cap, so this was a definite improvement even if it wasn't a very good fit. I refinished the wood, and it fits nicely now.

    In going through the rifle I completely disassembled it for cleaning. Somewhat to my surprise the inside workings of the rifle were almost spotless, but completely dry. Everything was lightly oiled and lubed as appropriate before re-assembly. This is somewhat the thrust of this thread, as the internal workings of the rifle and the disassembly/reassembly procedure are nothing at all like a Win. or Marlin. The rifle is of a unique design and all parts are removed as a unit from the bottom of the receiver.

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    Never having disassembled one of these rifles before, and having learned it's best not to just dive into things, I looked on U-Tube, and was surprised to find a video showing the disassembly/reassembly in great detail. I followed it (mostly) and with some minor difficulties the instructions worked. I confess that it took all of one afternoon to get it reassembled.

    One problem is that the hammer is powered by a strut that fits against it's rear, the leg of which is powered by a plunger and spring in a tube inside the butt stock. There is a window cut into the side of the rear tang of the receiver, and one would think that one could assemble the firing mechanism inside the receiver and then insert the strut through the window before replacing the butt stock. The U-Tube host mentioned that the strut had to be inserted into the receiver before the remainder of the hammer and firing mechanism was replaced, that it gets in the way, and a certain amount of jiggling and poking was necessary to get the mechanism in past the strut. I guess after his was assembled he decided that he could have inserted the strut in behind the hammer via the window, as the information that the strut could be replaced after assembly was repeated shown on the screen in text superimposed over the video. But--- he just made that assumption, as the strut will not fit through the window (too thick) and so he did it the correct way and later changed his mind. Perhaps I had a mental failure, because the first place I always consult is J.B. Wood's books on disassembly/reassembly. The next day I look in Volume IV, 2nd Edition, Centerfire Rifles, and there were his instructions for the 472 in great detail. His approach was much different that the U-Tube fellow's method, and appears much better. He also states that the first part to be replaced into the receiver is the strut. At the beginning of his 472 section is a list of similar Mossberg model rifles that the instructions apply to, and I was surprised at how many variations there are. So....perhaps one of the later models had a bigger window or thinner strut. But the young fellow on U-Tube was using a rifle only 35 sequential serial numbers higher than mine. My advice-- go with J.B.!

    Just a final commentary: I have a great respect for this rifle, the Mossberg Model 472 lever action rifle, and a growing respect for all things Mossberg in general. Whomever designed this rifle was a very smart person, taking the old idea of a lever action and coming up with something completely different. Some of it's features were borrowed from Marlin, such as the solid top, side ejection receiver; and from Winchester, in that the bolt is locked with two lugs which rise into notches on the bottom of the bolt on either side of the firing pin--not visible due to the receiver's solid top, but the notches are visible on the bolt. While the lever mounted trigger is not completely unique to the 472, it is unusual and found on only a couple of other lever actions. The ejector is pure Marlin. The loading gate cover's pin/leg serves as the pin on which the elevator is mounted. The cover must be pressed inward as the unitized hammer/firing mechanism is removed from the bottom of the receiver.

    Overall, the rifle is handy like those makes it competed with in the market place, a feature of all .30-30 carbines. If you're a gunsmith and run across one of these, maybe there's something here that will help you in working on it. No doubt some of you are already well acquainted with it. If you're a collector, shooter, or student of arms the 472 is a good one to acquire.

    DG
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    Last edited by Der Gebirgsjager; 07-27-2021 at 03:55 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Man
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    Very nice write-up, there were a number of things I learned. Well done!

  3. #3
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    I've often wondered why Mossberg seemed to get out of the rifle business and concentrated on cheap pump shotguns (Model 500 in all its variations) in about the mid 1970's/ early 80's. At least I don't remember seeing any on store shelves in the eighties.

    While I don't remember ever firing a centerfire Mossberg rifle, every one of the .22's I have fired have been shooters. With many of the "sporters" verging on target type accuracy.

    Thanks for the write up.

    Robert

  4. #4
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    That is neat! I'm glad it finally arrived.
    I'm sure that it's a shooter.

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    If you REALLY look at the contour of the lever plate(where the lever screw goes though the lever) and the contour of the lever, there is quite a difference to the 'experienced eye' between the Mossberg and the Marlin. I do remember when Mossberg brought them out and thought the changed look was not for me, others may like it better. Was it the 70's when it was around, just sort of disappeared from the market.

  6. #6
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    Mossberg had those in pre- production in 72. I worked for Pedersen Custom at the time. We were a semi custom gun shop that was part of Mossberg Corp. Our shop was on the factory grounds of the Mossberg North Haven works. The rifles didn't come onto the commercial market till '74. I think Montgomery Ward edition (model 72) actualy came out before the Mossberg 472.

    The 472 pre-production frames and levers were for short time brought over to our smaller shop in the back of the property with the thought of being used as practice pieces to teach polishing . Probably parts that didn't make the QC grade were what was dropped off for us to play with.

    Unfortunetly the disconnect betw the OFMossberg front office and their Factory style of mfg'rg would have had us use 3ft dia buffing wheels on scarry powerful machines that they actually did set up at one point.
    Our outlook was to hand file out the metal parts and hand polish everything like a good quality custom gun was supposed to be done.
    There was always that battle betw use and them over how to build our guns.
    Anyway..

    But I do remember those 472 frames and parts in boxes around the place.
    Just for giggles I did kick on one of the giant Baldors . It took a minute or two to come up to full speed and yes it was scarry at least it was for me,,,and it quickly told me who was boss as it yanked that frame right out of my mitts and slammed it into the wall behind the machine. So much for machine buffing!. Not what we had in mind for our work anyway,,but I had to try it!

    IIRC, parts of the 472 were built off of Patents granted to Louis Seecamp.
    He was still employed at OFM when I started there but was just about to retire. He had worked there since coming over from Europe in the later 1940's. He worked in the R&D. and had many patents under his name for different designs and mechanisms related to firearms. Some Mossberg built on. Others they simply made money on by selling or licensing.

    The lever detaching along with the trigger group from the action during functioning may be one or part of one of his patents.

  7. #7
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    2152hq, I sure enjoyed reading your post! Baldor buffers and large wheels is something I've experienced, but not 3 ft. in diameter. I attended Colorado School of Trades Gunsmithing School in the early '80s, and they had Baldor buffers, but the wheels were only about 1ft. to 14 inches in diameter. It doesn't matter how big the wheel is, really, it's where you hold the work on the wheel. Too far below the centerline and it will take it away from you. A few years later when I went into full time gunsmithing I purchased two Jet brand pedestal buffers with 1 ft. diameter wheels, two on each buffer for a total of four wheels, each with a different grade of grit. Metal refinishing eventually became about 80% of my business and I did a lot of buffing. Even after lots of years sometimes a wheel would grab a part out of my grasp and hit the wall. It takes several years to become really proficient at buffing, to not dish out holes, round sharp edges, and erase lettering. I knew nothing of Louis Seecamp personally, but always heard he was a design genius.

    DG

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Knew what it was, total tear downs on a few over the years. I'll keep the JM's, them things look like WWll Winchesters on the inside to me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    2152hq, I sure enjoyed reading your post! Baldor buffers and large wheels is something I've experienced, but not 3 ft. in diameter. .....
    DG
    The machine they set up for us was an extra from the Mossberg Polishing Room. They used that type in there with the large dia wheels. I used to go and watch on my lunch break the polishers doing their work. Amazing how they would handle the parts and get a quick, even surface polish.
    One of the machines they used to do shotgun barrel on had even largr dia wheels, but turned slowly when compared to the thing they gave us.
    One wheel at each side, a polisher on each.
    One grit on each wheel, one polisher would take a bbl from the box and swipe the sides of the forend lug and bbl junction. Then spin polish the entire length once up and then once back the other way. Stopping only momentarily to go around that forend hanger.
    The polisher(s) had a wooden block with a well worn groove in it from years of work. That was strapped onto one knee. With that they pressed the bbl into the wheel to give it it's 'spin'. Their gloved hands holding the ends to guide it back and forth.
    Each bbl done, was placed in a box on the other side so the polisher next to him could reach it.
    That person did the same polish to the piece but his wheel had a finer grit charged on the wheel.
    And so it went hour after hour,,day after day.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check