Stevens Pocket Rifle... in 32SW?

[dagnnorb]

My father bought a Steven's Pocket rifle from a friend. I am doing some research for it and kind of running into a wall.

Details: nickel finish over brass frame. Firing pin is in frame not on hammer. Circular side plate on left side of frame. Rear V notch sight, rectangular front post. Slugged barrel, grooves are ~.311" lands ~.305". Definitely centerfire, since I fired it over the weekend. barrel length.. i am guessing 10"

Not sure if serial numbers match, i will find out.

Seems chambered for 32 SW. I tried a 32RF, but it was sloppy in chamber and also rim was undersized for the extractor. 32 SW was a nice fit and gun closed.

I actually loaded and shot 32 SW out of it and all worked fine.

From what I can piece together, I think it is a New Model Pocket Rifle... but I can not find anywhere that says it was ever chambered for 32 SW... other than a list of from ATF:

SECTION III: Weapons Removed From The NFA
As Collector's Items And Classified
As Curios Or Relics Under The GCA

Stevens, Rifle, No. 20, w/smooth bore barrel for .22 and .32 rimfire shot cartridges.
Stevens, Reliable Pocket Rifle, second issue, cal. .22 long rifle or .22 Stevens-Pope.
Stevens, New model Pocket Rifle, first issue, caliber .22.
Stevens, New model Pocket Rifle, second issue, cal. .22 short, long or long rifle rimfire, .22 WRF, .32 long centerfire.
Stevens, New model Pocket Rifle No. 40, calibers: .22 long, rifle, .22 WRF, .22 Stevens-Pope, and.32 long centerfire

Anyone have any information if Stevens ever chambered any of their tip ups in 32 SW? It can not be a long, i can't even fit a empty shell in the chamber and close it.

I will try to get photos shortly.

[Bent Ramrod]

It was likely rechambered from the original .32 Long using heeled or inside-lubed hollow base bullet to .32 S&W Short when ammo got hard to find. Does the chamber seem to have a slight step or unusual freebore ahead of the length a S&W Short shell would extend?

The small and medium framed Pocket Rifles could be chambered in .32 Long rimfire or centerfire; the large frame Hunter's Pet could be chambered in any pistol caliber up to .44-40, according to Cope. If you have a large frame with a spur trigger (no trigger guard), it could have been a custom chambering.

The circular plate was phased out early in the manufacture of the medium frames. Some have spur triggers, some have regular round trigger guards.

[dagnnorb]

I should have said, spur trigger. Sorry for that omission.

On the contrary, i posted in the reloading forum also, the 32SW is .880-.930" SAMMI specified OAL. I loaded 3 different bullets to .920" and none of them chambered. I had to seat 75gr bullet to .850" to get 32SW to chamber (.860" i could chamber, but tough to close action, i think i was just about kissing the step in the chamber). It fired fine with ok accuracy for the few loads i shot through it.

But which 32 Long? 32 SW Long, there would have lots of free bore, but i have opposite, not enough free bore to even load a .920" SW short. the 32 Long colt cartridge is same length as SW Long, and neck diameter is .318", so even if it was recut to 32 SW short, if chamber was cut short... the case should hit, not the bullet, the bullet is .312" still .006" smaller than than the 32 Long Colt cartridge diameter plus i would think the 32 Long Colt chamber would be more like ~.322" cut for clearance. there were marks on bullet, not case of interference preventing chambering.

There is a definite step from chamber to bore... but it looks to be the orginal start of the bore diameter. Marks on a chambered bullet are in same location when i place bullet down bore... i.e. diameter is same at muzzle as geometry that is preventing a .920" loaded cartridge to chamber.

The geometry of going from either the 32 Long Colt or 32 SW Long to 32 SW short doesn't make sense in what I am seeing in the chamber and how I have to load the cartridge. My opinion is that they cut the freebore short for a 32 SW short, i just can't find any reference of one being chambered in the short.

I also wonder if the standard bullet back 100 years ago was different geometry on the tip, more like a SWC with a pronounced step.. allowing more bullet tip to go into the bore but the full diameter of the bullet was much closer to the case mouth.

I want to take photos and post.
.

[2152hq]

IIRC those were chambered for the .32 Colt (pistol) CF cartridge. I'd guess the 32 Colt Short cartridge.
The first edition of the round used a healed bullet so the bullet was the same dia as the brass caseing itself.
Bullet dia on this round was .312.
The 32RF round from the same era used the same case dimentions and the same healed bullet of same dia. The only difference is the RF vs CF .

Later on the 32Colt cartridge was changed to an inside lubed bullet. This reduced the bullet diameter to a .299 diameter.
The soft lead bullet was expected to expand upon firing and fill the bore dia .312 rifling.
This inside lubed bullet was used well after the Stevens pistols were made I believe.


Edited...
Your's was chambered orig for the healed bullet 32Colt (short) CF round I would say.
The orig chamber would have shown just a gentle lead or throat into the rifling from the chamber as the casing and bullet were the same dia ( the same construction as a .22rf cartridge).
Once rechambered for the slightly larger dia 32 S&W cartridge which used an inside lube bullet instead of the heeled bullet style,,now you have the edge at the front of the chamber.
If anything other than a true chambering reamer was used to cut the new chamber, you may not have a 'throat' in the new chamber and the bulleted rounds need to be press fit into the rifling when loaded.
Some target guns are cut that way for accuracy. Here it may just be what they ended up with cutting the new chamber with what tool(s) they had available.


32 Colt ammunition being somewhat difficult to find and being slightly smalled in case dia than the more common 32 S&W (short & long),,many guns so chambered for the Colt round have been simply rechambered for the 32 S&W round.
It just enlarges the chamber dia by a few .000 and allows the 32S&W round to be used.
Bullet dia for the 32S&W is also listed as .312 though some places show .up to .314. Any small differences in a couple of .000 make no issues with it's low pressures and soft lead bullet.

A 32RF round will then be a wobble fit in the now rechambered oversized chamber from what it once was.


FWIW,,The Marlin model 92 rifle in 32cal fired both the 32Colt CF and RF rd with a flip of the firing pin.
The same issue with finding 32Colt ammo later on has led to some of the fine rifles being rechambered to 32 S&W Long and they work just fine.

[uscra112]

It's been rechambered. There should be no step in the chamber. .32 RF had a heeled bullet like a .22 RF, the same diameter as the case.

Standard bullet for .32 rimfire was the Ideal 299153. Around 90 grains, round nose. There was another RN heeled bullet that was longer/heavier, and it will NOT fit into .32 RF chambers unless you trim the brass shorter. (Ask me how I know!).

Lots of intelligence here: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/906482734

The heeled bullets will not work in a .32 S&W chamber.

[ddixie884]

Interesting........

[dagnnorb]

If it was rechambered from a 32RF, it had to be 32RF extra short, because a 32RF Short cartridge can be as long or longer than a 32 SW short. And since the 32RF bullet is actually larger diameter due to it being a heeled bullet (.316" opposed to .312") then a 32RF short will not chamber in the gun also unless the bullet

The issue i keep running into: 32 RF short, 32 Colt Short (original heeled bullet), 32 SW short... all have the same basic case length and more importantly, overall loaded length...

32 RF short, OAL .948" (wikipedia, sorry at work don't have access to my COW book)
32 short Colt, OAL .965" MAX (SAAMI spec)
32 SW short, OAL .880-.930" (SAAMI spec)

All have same basic bullet diameter.. .312-.316". Except for 32 short colt non-heeled at .299"

There is no way any of those three would chamber in gun if they all have the .312-.316 bullets at the OAL listed above.

UNLESS it was originally for 32RF extra short and if the chamber was not reamed to proper depth or 32 short Colt non-heeled bullet.

Personally... i am leaning towards bullets back then had a smaller diameter above the crimp grove that allowed the bullet to chamber further into the bore and still allowed cartridge to chamber. I am not ruling out rechambering from a 32 Short Colt...less likely 32 RF short (i have to look again, but i didn't notice any modifications to firing pin to change from RF to CF, but it may have been so well done, i cant see seam).

Also, some one pointed out... there were no standards back then. The OAL may have been shorter than before SAAMI standardized.

I should have pics coming soon, I asked my father to take some this morning.

[dagnnorb]

I used the 75gr TC bullet because I had them on hand for my 32ACP. I think if i got the 78 gr RN, the geometry is different, I may be able to seat bullet further out and get more powder charge...

[dagnnorb]

Finally got photos from my father...

[hoodat]

That is cool, very cool. Thankyou.jd

[John Boy]

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...bih=1534&dpr=2

[Battis]

I have a Frank Wesson pocket shotgun. The chamber is approx. 1.9” long, and measures .375” diameter. A liner was inserted into the barrel that stops at the 1.9" chamber. The liner measures .358", and actually acts as a stop (or step). The chamber and barrel are smoothbore. So, the liner acts as a choke. It looks like the stop or step in your photo.
Apparently it was meant to fire a Stevens .38 shotshell. The Wesson and Stevens factories were very close to each other in MA. A .38 or .357 case fits in the chamber, but are way too short, and the fit is sloppy.
Is it possible that yours wasn't rechambered, but relined? I know it's not smoothbore but, why would there be a stop/step in a chamber that takes a rimmed case?

[dagnnorb]

Battis... i highly doubt it was relined. it would have to be relined, rechambered, and extractor modified. I don't see any indication that it was relined from 38 to a 32. And I totally agree... i have no idea why there is a step in the chamber... it has me baffled too. I am not ruling out rechambering from 32RF to 32CF... but i still wouldn't expect a step in it... all the 32 calibers have the same basic bullet diameter and COAL.

[Battis]

I'm not saying that yours was relined from 38 - 32. In mine, they reduced the diameter of the bore ahead of the chamber so they could continue to use the same cartridge (shell), but with a choke. In yours, that wouldn't make sense, but it seems that whoever did the work was trying to keep the original cartridge size but with a smaller bullet (or something like that. Who knows.)
I got some great info at the ASSRA (American Single Shot Rifle Association). Some of the members there determined that my Frank Wesson pocket shotgun was actually factory made and not altered at a later date.
Check it out. Helpful, knowledgeable people.
https://assra.com/

Can you tell if the firing pin has been altered from RF to CF?

[dagnnorb]

I need to look at it again, but I do not think it has been altered. I have not seen what a stevens RF firing pin looks like. I know some makers had firing pins that could be rotated to do either RF or CF. I want to get gun again and take a closer look at firing pin and the face to see if there are any seams visible.

[dagnnorb]

Update: i got chance to try chambering a 32 SW factory load measuring .920 COAL and it chambered fine. 100% it was bullet geometry/ogive location that caused chambering issues. I have new bullets order that should work fine.