hi all, newbie here, info for browning 71 to 50-100-450 wanted

[indian joe]

hi folks, thanks for responding.
indian Joe, my 71 is an early one, close to #0350. Has a typical 1/3 cock lever safety. I am not familiar with the firing pin issue you mention. Ive tried to find blow up schematics on this rifle I can actually read on line but no luck so far. More info is appreciated.

Ive emailed noneman a month ago and no response.
Jes got back to me but I am looking for a new barrel anyway and he says he doesnt sell new barrels..

Sure a shotgun is great, not the energy of a 50cal load though, plus i need something new to reload for and a new rifle to tinker with, plus ive always wanted to do this conversion.

You guys may be right, maybe i should go with the 50alaskan, i can find dies for that cartridge(a month ago), really just wanted the 50-100 to be the big brother to my 45-90, keep it all in the family so to speak, sentimental reasoning lol.

(windows media player file)
Japchester firing pin

23 is the rebound spring - goes in first - over the striker part of the firing pin. I left this in but in mine it serves NO useful purpose, the ears on the lever retract the firing pin off of the primer just like an original

the little bit with the leg up and leg down was the offender and perhaps if I pulled the bolt and gave it a good soak in degreaser may have fixed the problem. the leg up engages in a groove in the internals of the bolt (spring loaded) allowing the leg down to form a block in the innards of the pin and that carries the strike through to the firing pin from the floating bit at the back that the hammer strikes . I got rid of the tricky little pieces and turned a piece of a drill shank to convert it to solid - a bit of filing at the back to get correct engagement with the hammer. If I was carrying this rifle in bear country (we dont have bears) i would do this for mod sure.

[hard88cast]

indian joe, thanks for the follow up. Cant open that media file here at work, will check it out once i get home.

[JFE]

If it were me I would try to find a 71 in either 450 Alaskan or 50 Alaskan and try shooting it. I have not tried the 50 Alaskan but I did fire Bud Leibing's 450 Alaskan in Palmer, AK. It bent my nose over almost til it bled. It was my thumb that hit my nose. There is something about those 71 stocks that causes that. I have fired many other hard recoiling rifles. I have owned two in .458 Win. and one in .416 Rem.. When I lived up there I regularly hunted with a Sako in .338 Win.. So I don't think I was overly sensitive to recoil. Just bent noses.

It’s a poor stock design.

When Winchester switched from the long tang to the short tang version a few years after they introduced the Model 71, they also pushed the nose of the comb forward. Why they did that is a mystery. When Browning made their run of rifles they duplicated the short tang design, along with the longer comb stock.

I found the stock design of the B-71 quite uncomfortable to use as it positioned my hand too close to my nose. I eventually turned my 71 over to a local stock maker who altered the stock by pushing the comb back and restyling the comb for a more comfortable grip. It now handles recoil a lot better.

[John Taylor]

Several years ago I did a four barrel setup on an 1886 takedown. One of the barrels was 348 and the owner sent me some Buffalo bore ammo to test it. The action locked up and it was difficult to get it open after firing. I asked the customer if he had some Winchester ammo and he supplied several rounds. The gun worked perfect with the Winchester ammo but that's not what this post is about. The 1886 had a crescent butt plate and the customer said the 50-110 hurt to shoot so he sent it back for a shotgun stile butt stock. Seems several customers complain about the crescent butt plate when it comes to recoil.

[farmbif]

bighornarmory makes some very nice big bore lever guns

[hard88cast]

yes those crescent stocks do make a guy flinch. For me the crescent stock means "Winchester", So when I am admiring my rifles i like the true antique stock look. When I am shooting my antiques i put on a sissy pad for myself. Makes a heck of a difference.

I have thought about bighorn, but have yet to hold one, stock looks very straight in pictures, to straight for me. So would have to find one to actually hold before making a decision on that.

[hard88cast]

indian joe. My b71 is under 400 serial#, has a solid 1/2 cock safety. You mentioned a couple times about the funky firing pin set up. No, i have not taken mine apart. But should be sending my rifle to gunsmith shortly and would like to correct any funky lawyer firing pin issues while he has it so doing homework.
You mentioned drill rod(seems soft to me) replacement for some parts, did you remove that up/down part completely?
Did you happen to find an aftermarket fix for this.
thanks

[pietro]

.

FWIW, for pins I use the shank of an appropriately-sized sacrificial drill bit, ground to length (they are hardened, so cannot be easily cut)

[indian joe]

indian joe. My b71 is under 400 serial#, has a solid 1/2 cock safety. You mentioned a couple times about the funky firing pin set up. No, i have not taken mine apart. But should be sending my rifle to gunsmith shortly and would like to correct any funky lawyer firing pin issues while he has it so doing homework.
You mentioned drill rod(seems soft to me) replacement for some parts, did you remove that up/down part completely?
Did you happen to find an aftermarket fix for this.
thanks

Winchester Bob and one other place was advertising a solid firing pin for a tad over $30 - doesnt work for me - importing gun parts to the land downunder is just the biggest pain - paperwork is ridiculous and most suppliers in the US wont sell to us anyway
I did same as Pietro - use a tungsten tool you can turn the shank end of a drill - its good tough steel but not brittle.- but I would check out the ready made one first.

[indian joe]

(windows media player file)
Japchester firing pin

23 is the rebound spring - goes in first - over the striker part of the firing pin. I left this in but in mine it serves NO useful purpose, the ears on the lever retract the firing pin off of the primer just like an original

the little bit with the leg up and leg down was the offender and perhaps if I pulled the bolt and gave it a good soak in degreaser may have fixed the problem. the leg up engages in a groove in the internals of the bolt (spring loaded) allowing the leg down to form a block in the innards of the pin and that carries the strike through to the firing pin from the floating bit at the back that the hammer strikes . I got rid of the tricky little pieces and turned a piece of a drill shank to convert it to solid - a bit of filing at the back to get correct engagement with the hammer. If I was carrying this rifle in bear country (we dont have bears) i would do this for mod sure.

lookin for hard88cast

this is part I replaced with drill shank
#chose one just a tad over size of the outer barrel of the firing pin
#carefully turned a smaller diameter to fit inside the barrel of the old pin sos its hard up agin the front and at the same time a shoulder is full diameter at the back end protruding the same distance as the floating bit used to (about 85 thou) - this is careful delicate machining and it needs to be right, you want impact transferred solidly to the body of the firing pin through the rear shoulder and also at the front end of this insert piece
#red loctite to hold it
so you have some spare bits 1)the floating rear piece you just replaced 2) a little spring from in front of that bit - makes a dandy coil handspring for a replica colt capgun 3) the little dog leggy piece that caused the lockup 4) retaining pin for that last bit .

If Winchester Bobs replacement will fit (I reckon it should) is a better idea for sure

[hard88cast]

Indian Joe,thanks for the pics. Tried win bob on friday and couldnt get him. Will try next week.
Win Bob doesnt know if his win 71 firing pins will work in the blr71 but I think the cost is worth a try.

[Snowyone]

I'm another looking to convert a Browning Model 71 to a 50 Alaskan. Not going to use it to shoot gophers but think it has it's place crawling around the brush on the Islands of PWS looking for deer and maybe a bear. I know recoil will be substantial but hope Magnaporting and a Limbsaver will tame it enough so it doesn't break my nose(its big enough all ready). Want to go with a shorter barrel like 22" to go with the guns natural balance, ease of getting on target in the dense brush, and its packability. I've tried to contact anyone who would be interested in doing so and thus far no ones been excited about doing it. Two have said its a lot of work and to expect 8 to 9 months waiting period. Mine is a Browning and don't figure I'm ruining its ascetics but turning it into something I'm happy with on my adventures.

[Rick B]

Contact John Taylor about your 50 Alaskan conversion. He posted earlier on this same thread.
Rick

[.45Cole]

I think most of the guys here are leading you down a good path, the 71 was modified from the 1886 and one of the modifications was the action; you can't get a 71 to feed 50-110 without *some* work. So if it is a 50-110 you're after I think you would be ahead to pony up for a 45-70 1886 and take it to 50-110, it's not like owning a 50-110 will be cheap anyways. If it's a big thumper on the 71 action you desire, then a 50 alaskan should kick enough.
If you just want something for bear protection I'd think bear spray would keep you panning easier, but if your deterrent needs to go bang then the shotgun or a win 100 in .358. The 100 is the ultimate *levergun* albeit it is an auto but nearly identical to the 88, Winchester's last lever.

[hard88cast]

Hi 45cole
conversion is already a long time underway from a smith on this site. Im hoping its almost done. Smith did need to find a 45-70 part though, good call on that.
I carry spray, pistol and long rifle at mining camp, kodiaks in alaska or lower 48 grizz if there is time its going to be a 50cal 500gr slug at 2000ftsec. My opinion is that spray will "not stop" a "completely committed" bear from mauling you. Most all charges are false charges though and have had many of those, spray works great for that. Thanks for chiming in.

[Rick B]

Whats the latest word on your 50-110 conversion
Rick

[hard88cast]

Hi Rick
Well things seem to be going along well. Recd
a pic of my 22" 1/2 octagon 1\2 round barrel, looked really sweet. Finally got a hold of Winchester bob and bought a win 71 firing pin, we will have to wait and see if it will work or not.
And the best news is my smith just let me know the parts were being sent out for bluing. Now that's good news.....
I also decided to forgo the crescent butt and bought a pad and shipped it to the smith, he says that is done also.
So looks like we are on the downhill slide right now and I need to come up with some loads.
Rick ,I very much appreciate all the tutoring on shooting black powder that you gave me, but as a newbie to black powder it seems real confusing to me and smokeless is so easy. So I need to come up with some smokeless loads first. Hopefully I can find some powder that will let me fill the case without using fillers.
Going to write a post soon and list all the powders I have and see if anyone has a load for any of them. Been trying to find 3031 but haven't seen any around for two years up here. I do look forward to my 50 belching bp smoke soon.
I know I've been really quiet on this subject, its the only way to have patience while waiting the build out��

[indian joe]

Hi Rick
Well things seem to be going along well. Recd
a pic of my 22" 1/2 octagon 1\2 round barrel, looked really sweet. Finally got a hold of Winchester bob and bought a win 71 firing pin, we will have to wait and see if it will work or not.
And the best news is my smith just let me know the parts were being sent out for bluing. Now that's good news.....
I also decided to forgo the crescent butt and bought a pad and shipped it to the smith, he says that is done also.
So looks like we are on the downhill slide right now and I need to come up with some loads.
Rick ,I very much appreciate all the tutoring on shooting black powder that you gave me, but as a newbie to black powder it seems real confusing to me and smokeless is so easy. So I need to come up with some smokeless loads first. Hopefully I can find some powder that will let me fill the case without using fillers.
Going to write a post soon and list all the powders I have and see if anyone has a load for any of them. Been trying to find 3031 but haven't seen any around for two years up here. I do look forward to my 50 belching bp smoke soon.
I know I've been really quiet on this subject, its the only way to have patience while waiting the build out��

funny how we all think different based on previous experience
if that was my cannon the very first load I fired in it would be a duplex load ...10 grains of 4227 on the primer + fill it up with FFg blackpowder (the real stuff NOT any subs) + about a quarter inch compression + a 45 thou poly wad (HDPE is what I can get and it works) + boolit of choice - I would come back grinning and likely never feel the need to try anything else in it.

That would give you the best of both worlds and be the easiest, simplest, start load ..............................shoot clean until you got sick of it, decent velocity, lots of smoke, safe as houses.

Do some research while you wait - take NO notice of the naysayers. they will have zero experience with actually doing it.

forgot -----decent lube grooves on the boolit and proper blackpowder lube (50/50 beeswax and some kind of natural oil is a good place to start)

[hard88cast]

Indian joe,,,
Any idea what kind of velocity can I get out of a load like that? 450-500gr boolits.


Would that velocity be adjustable by the amount of smokeless put on the primer?

When Rick introduced me to the thought of BP I went to my local shop and they had NO ffg or wads, and smpowder types are really hard to find around here.

How touchy is the type of smpowder used when only using 10gr or so? Haven't seen that powder you mention in years around here.
Think I have some 110, 4198 and 5744 plus some faster stuff like blue dot and longshot.

Where can I get these wads, ffg? (And you do mean ffg,correct)

A very gracious CB member that lives fairly close to me sent me some awesome 480gr cast boolits to try out as my first load, lubed very well. Actually chambered the rifle to fit this round and Barnes 450 jacketed that I reloaded dummy rds and sent off with the rifle.

And lastly when I was going thru all the literature Rick sent me on bp, I read that I had to clean the barrel, sometimes "between shots" and worst of all in my mind had to clean with "water", that thru me over the deep end, putting water in my brand new barrel.
That goes against everything my brain considers when caring for carbon steel.

[Rick B]

Glad to hear your project is nearing completion. Large volume cases of the Pre 1900's vintage, work best with BP. Duplexing with a small amount of smokeless eliminates wiping the bore between shots. With regards to shooting BP in a levergun, fouling management is critical. A pull through system would prevent fluids and sludge from dropping into the action. It would exit out the muzzle instead. A well constructed pull through string with a 8-32 brass female termination would allow one to use a 50 caliber nylon brush threaded into the 8-32 brass termination. Using 2 1/4"-2 1/2 patch with a hole punched in the middle. Would allow a shooter to unscrew the brush and slip the patch over the male threads of the brush. Screw the brush back into the pull through string thereby capturing the patch. Slow but very effective. Two small containers with pre lubed cleaning patches and your favorite oil would make for a very lightweight field kit. There are many formula's available on the internet for cleaning black powder fouling. Black Powder fouling salts are neutralized by water. A combination of one part Ballistol and two parts water, makes a very good BP cleaning solution.

Buffalo Arms in Idaho has a large selection of vegetable fiber and poly wads.
Rick

PS IMR 4759 is the preferred smokeless duplexing powder. Unfortunately is was discontinued 5-6 years ago.