hi all, newbie here, info for browning 71 to 50-100-450 wanted

[Rick B]

One additional action I should of mentioned. The Biologists that have studied attacks, recommend that you fight a Black Bear attack. When it comes to Brown/Grizzlies it is recommended that you get down and cover your head with your arms. Don't resist. Once a Brown/ Grizzly swats you a time or two and realizes it's dominance. The odds are it will leave. Will leave a link to a 2017 article on two Black Bear attacks in Alaska. The author also retells a 1977 encounter a Goverment Geologist had. I clearly remember reading about the 1977 attack, just after Air happened. If I recall correctly the Black Bear weighted 125 pounds.
https://craigmedred.news/2017/06/21/dangerous-bear/
Rick

[hard88cast]

I agree Rick.
Sorry, seems as though I got us off track here, so am going to start up again with some needed help?

1: Found a nice gas checked 540gr hard cast bullet I can turn down on my lathe to get the correct winchester 450 profile and metplate and probably end up around 480-500gr..Only thing is the seller says it is BHN of 24-25...That seems awfully hard, but will be pushing that 50cal bullet around 2100fps or so, any thoughts on this for a bear load?

[Rick B]

No experience at that velocity with cast bullets and dangerous game. I have used 30-1 bullets at
1400-1500 fps at the muzzle. In 45 caliber, heavy for bore diameter bullets. Which resulted in complete pass throughs. Shot a number of moose broadside with older cup and core bullets including Nosler Partitions. 30-06's and 338 WM. Never had a bullet exit the off side. upon skinning the animal the bullet would always be laying against the hide on the far side. Many a time I would visualize the hide on the far side stretching out 5"-6 and springing back, successfully retaining the bullet. Whether that happen or not, I can't say. Shot a Moose one day with a 45 caliber rifle at 65 yards, he was running-broadside. Hit it high centered on the lungs. Bullet made a complete pass through. Knocked the Moose off his feet. He couldn't get back up. Another instance I shot a Dall Sheep that was walking away. 45 caliber 540 grain paper patched bullet at 1300 fps. Bullet struck the Ram several inches below his anus. It passed completely through the Ram and exited out the center of it's chest. Ram tipped over on it's side like his hooves were on hinges. Stone cold dead. I realize nether of the above instances resulted in major bone contact. Mainly soft flesh penetration.

A 450 grain 50 caliber slug at 2100 fps out of a 9# levergun is not something, I would want to shoot. I have shot a lot of large caliber rifles over the years l. The above combination is on a while new level of recoil. If I had to guess the 25 BHN bullet you found would not fare well at 2100 fps. Order a gas checked mold from Tom at Accurate Molds with the proper nose length. Cast a 12 BHN bullet. The duplex load you end up with, should launch a 450 grain bullet at 1500 fps. There is nothing in North America, that would tolerate, that combination. It will also be a recoil tolerable load.
Rick

[hard88cast]

Rick, yep duplex load to start out, maybe like it so much will just stay with it, don't know at this time. sounds like you think a 25bhn bullet is to hard?
Seems like lots of the bigger cast bullet manufacturers are casting right in that bhn area.

[indian joe]

Rick, yep duplex load to start out, maybe like it so much will just stay with it, don't know at this time. sounds like you think a 25bhn bullet is to hard?
Seems like lots of the bigger cast bullet manufacturers are casting right in that bhn area.

a 2B pencil just marks mine (so 12-13bhn?) 350 grain boolit at 1500fps from my 45/70 gives a perfect mushroom at 100yards in soft dirt - no leading !
I cant think of one good reason for those hard cast boolits but its a craze thats been running in the US for ages - if you are a production caster selling to noobies then its easier to make nice neat boolits quicker - thats a reason but not a good one.

[hard88cast]

Joe,, my research says the same thing,, hard bhn to make nice shiny bullets to sell to newbies and no damage while shipping.

I don't have the time or space right now to take up another hobby learning to cast , so may just have to use Barnes bullets with smokeless loads. Barnes recommends approx 18-2200fps on impact with their 450 jacketed.
Think I will contact the bullet manufacturer I was looking at and maybe they will make a softer bullet on request.

Rick,,having a custom mold made is not a bad idea, but still need someone to cast them for me.

[Rick B]

What's the latest on your 50-100-450 build.
Rick

[hard88cast]

Hey Rick, your keeping me on my toes. Must have been reading my mind.
Just recd my rifle back yesterday. Spent today checking free bore on a couple of bullets, the Barnes 450gr clears well. Loaded 10rds from 35gr to 45 gr of 5744.. Have been trying to find Swiss 1.5 and no luck on that so smokeless is going to break the barrel in.
Also for anyone interested I took Indian Joes advice and bought a win71 firing pin it fit well with miner mods.
The blr71 firing pin is strange to say the least and not something I wanted to rely on.
I had the smith make a 22" 1\2 round 1\2 octagon barrel, it is sweet.
Action works correctly, needs a complete lever action to raise the feed ramp, rifle feeds correctly while upside down.
Depending on weather up here in Montana going to try and go to the range tomorrow and check things with the chrono.
I don't know how to post pics, I still need to take a couple nice pics.
I chickened out with the crescent butt and had the smith put a limb saver on for me. I still need to finish the stock and forearm.
Keep you all posted soon.

[Rick B]

Glad to hear your rifle is back home. Feeding is a major issue with the 50-100 or 50-110. Sounds like John Did a good job on the feed modifications. Would really like to see pictures of the completed rifle with the 22" half round - half octagon barrel. I have several single shots with that configuration. Really like the overall appearance they present. Hope to hear a shooting report later today!
Rick

[John Taylor]

The 50-100 was fun build, now I should get my own finished. Mine has sort of been a parts gun starting with an old beat up model 71. Several years back a customer had me make several barrels for his late model import takedown 71 and complained about the recoil of the 50 so I replace the butt stock with a shotgun stile. That left me with a nice pistol grip stock for my 71 but the lower tang didn't fit the wood. A new replacement lower tang fit the wood but took some fitting to go in the action. Bought a new forearm that matched the checkering of the butt stock and fit the new 30" octagon barrel. Mike Hunter did the lettering on the barrel an Redman supplied a piece of tube for the long magazine. Barrel is on the action and threads on the mag tube to fit, just need to finish it. I figure the long barrel will tame it down a bit even with the crescent butt plate. Next will be making my own loading dies because they are so expensive and hard to find, then maybe a bullet mold.

[hard88cast]

I keep trying to "insert picture from computer", Keep getting an error message.

ok, went shooting this morning, beautiful morning out 18deg F in the sun, I was in the shade with a 5mph breeze.
Rifle functioned flawlessly with the 450 gr barnes jacketed. Actually i cant tell any difference from levering the cartridge into the chamber between this 50 and my antique 45-90 and 45-70.
My blr71 was built I believe in 1986, i bought it 6 months ago and it had never had a round inserted into the mag as well as I can tell. Brand new from an estate sale. Stiff action, did loosen up a little with some oil. Point being you need to hit the lever hard to actuate the elevator, swing the lever back and the cartridge just glides right into the chamber, no fuss. I was a little surprised with this conversion that the cartridge is held very firmly throughout the lever action and how smoothly the cartridge glides into chamber. Major kudos to my gunsmith.
Now to the barrel, the rifling and bore from the factory is really nice, i mean glass smooth, impressive. The Job my gunsmith did making it a 22" 1/2 round 1/2 octagon is just phenomenal, beautiful, not sure how to say it any differently. Actually a work of art, I thought to myself how am I going to take this rifle out mining and scratch it up, but im going to, its going to get a little beat up.

I loaded 35,40 and 45 grain loads, 1/2 with loose powder in the case and 1/2 with my old standby filler with a little pressure on the powder and chronographed them all with my 40yr old chrony chrono.
The last load of 45gr hit 1515fps loose fill and 1595 packed with filler.
I must say for my first time ever shooting a 50, when you squeeze that trigger off you definitely know there is a big hunk of lead going down range.
All cartridges were fired off the bench thru a chrony with 3 1/2"x2" opening set 12' forward with matching target at 25 yds. The first 6 shots "one holed" after that between my trifocals with safety glasses over the top were fogging up and I just couldnt focus any more looking into the bright sunlight, rest were all within an inch. All shots were dead nuts center of target were my gunsmith said he set the sights.
Glad I decided to listen to you folks and have my smith install a buttpad instead of crescent butt. I have a feeling hitting 1850fps isnt going to be much fun off the bench.
The freebore with the barnes bullets is about .090, the lead bullets Tom from this blog gave me to try are a little long with the driving band by about .025" compressed into the rifling so I did not load any of those, so on the lookout for cast bullets that will work, or maybe shorten all my cases a bit.

[hard88cast]

Hi John, I did not know if you wanted me to divulge your name but since Rick "LOL" let the cat out of the bag, just wanted to say thanks for a great job. It lifts and feeds those barnes bullets perfectly. It really shoots sweet. Thanks.

I failed at figuring out how to post the pics so Tom is going to help with that, sending pics to him now. Thanks Tom.

[hpbear101]

Picture upload for hard88cast

[Rick B]

I only mentioned a first name. Not the last. Enjoyed seeing the pictures and hearing the shooting report. There is nothing in North Ameria that will tolerate a 450 grain 51 caliber bullet at 1500 FPS. Bought my first Shiloh Sharps in 50-140 3 1/4"'in 1979. The Shiloh had a Crescent buttstock. Quickly learned that a 525 grain bullet at 1550 FPS was not a lot of fun. Replaced it with a #1 Sporter in 1983. #1 Sporters had a shotgun buttstock. Made a world of difference. By that time I was loading a custom 615 grain bullet and a duplex load at 1550 FPS. It was a handful.
Rick

[hard88cast]

Wow Rick, 615 gr @ 1550, that's a handful. think I will bring my load up to 50gr 5744 and call it good..then see what 3031 does. recovered a few of those barnes bullets from a somewhat frozen dirt berm , smashed up.

[John Taylor]

Glad you'r having fun with the 50. Always great to hear a happy customer. I have not had a chance to do any shooting sense the move. My kids bought me a year pass at the local indoor range as a Christmas present, need to go pop a few caps. Latest build is an under hammer pistol for a young lady.

[JFE]

Well done on getting the project completed. JT has done a great job. Well done.

Look forward to hearing how your handloads go.

I have a few moulds that were designed to work in 500 Linebaugh, 50 Alaskan and 50/110. My 50/110 accepts them fine because it has a longish throat but they foul in a 50/90 I have. I ordered a 0.500 sizer die for my lubesizer and size the front of the cast projectile up to the crimp groove and the bullet then fits perfectly in my 50/90.

[hard88cast]

Hey there JFE ,
I loaded up a few more 45gr in 5744, and 48, 50 and 52 grainers. I don't think I will be wanting to go any more than that. But want to feel the capabilities of the cartridge(ouch) somewhat.
Then I will play with some 3031.
After that I will site in at 50 yds and call it good.
Keep you posted on next Chrony numbers.

[hard88cast]

Went to the range yesterday for anyone interested, shooting 5744 w/o fillers, so powder was loose in the case.
45gr 5744=1586.
48gr=1675.
50gr=1730.
52gr=1800.

So ive loaded 35 gr thru 52 gr. All shot from the bench on a rest thru chrono at a target at 50yds this time.
I called Hogdon about a load for the 50-100 and 5744, they said 30-47gr. Since i am playing with a blr71 instead of an original 86 I took it a little higher.
Im no powder expert but what I gathered from hodgon was that 5744 is a special type two part powder(I forget the difference), but designed to be loose in the case. Picture a half filled case with the powder laying flat in the bttm of the case.
Anyway shooting from a bench on a rest is not the most comfortable way to shoot a 50 but what I noticed was that all the way up to 50gr of powder it didnt kick too bad, but 52gr changed things a little noticeably. Again I just work by feel, but that difference made me feel like i had hit the limit of the "2 part nitro powder" that 5744 is(shook my jaw). So from this point out i am going to be loading 4198 and 3031 to play with.
Now to the accuracy of the Douglas barrel 1/24". I shot several groups and new targets each time. Shooting barnes 450gr jacketed at 50 yds, which thru my tri focals and safety glases is a feat in itself, all 3 shot groups of different powder amounts all 1 holed in a clover leaf or overlapped each other.
Other then the 52gr load which after the first shot I called it quits on the chrono and saved the last loads for the 100yd gong, rang it.
Again many praises to John my smith, my rifle will load barnes 450 grainers as fast as you can lever it, ive tried to make it fail on the Barnes bullets and i cant get it to fail loading smoothly. Totally sweet rifle. So sweet I dont know how to say it any differently.

For indian joe i weighed it again on my business postal scale and 8.34lbs. Thanks indian Joe on the tip to try a win 71 firing pin, that stock pin is scary. Thanks to all for the help and guidance and especially to Rick who has jammed me full of info all the way thru this.