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Thread: Ford battery powered pick-up

  1. #61
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    The only way I can see electric vehicles completely replacing fuel vehicles of all types is if there is a major infrastructure change. I think we would have to see some sort of power induction system place in major roadways. Something similar to the old overhead power systems the trollies use, but this would be under ground and no direct contact would be needed. The technology is out there it would just be very expensive and then you have the problem of producing the electricity. Do we use evil coal?

    Ahh, but then how would the greedy power companies be able to get their pound of flesh?

    As a side note...If you have ever been stuck on the PA Turnpike on the Sunday after Thanksgiving I don't think your EV would be very efficient.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1 View Post
    As a side note...If you have ever been stuck on the PA Turnpike on the Sunday after Thanksgiving I don't think your EV would be very efficient.
    Interestingly, that kind of thing is where they shine. When you're sitting still, you're not having to idle an engine, and the brake regen means that you recapture some of the energy you spend in the stop and go instead of just turning it to heat.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1 View Post
    If I remember correctly, back in the seventies, Popular Mechanics did several articles on building hybrid electric cars. Of course back then all you had were the lead acid batteries of the day so you needed a light car with large space for batteries. Now as I remember it they would put as many batteries as possible in the car, take out the existing engine and replace it with something like a 15 horse B&S lawn mower engine. I think the drive motor was an old jet engine starter. There was at least a 200 amp alternator that was constantly turned buy the lawn mower engine.







    These batteries would definitely start getting rid of the zinc wheel weights that have plaque us for quite some time now.
    I remember that article, and IIRC one was about a heavy fly wheel that spun inside a vacuum chamber, very high rpm, the electric motor would spin up the fly wheel at first to get you moving. Then the small engine would take over when the batteries got low. Also the brake system would put energy into the fly wheel.

    That same year was reading about a new technology called cell phone, where you could go down the road and talk from tower to tower without loosing the signal. Should have invested in that technology.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government..... When the people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    Like it or not, EV's are coming. Within 10 years most major gas franchise stations will require owners to remodel and expand so they can have a bank of chargers. The businesses with the most chargers will get the most business. Movie theaters, malls, even the doctor and dentist offices. If owners can't charge while they shop, eat, or be treated they will go where they can charge.
    Range will continue to improve and charging times will decrease.

    There would be some advantages to owning a EV. No more oil changes, very little maintenance. The perfect customer is someone who drives under 150 miles a day and will slow charge the car at night when the rates are lower. Face it, 95% of America falls into this group except for the occasional road trip.
    just like gun control it will only be forced on us if we allow it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1 View Post
    The only way I can see electric vehicles completely replacing fuel vehicles of all types is if there is a major infrastructure change. I think we would have to see some sort of power induction system place in major roadways. Something similar to the old overhead power systems the trollies use, but this would be under ground and no direct contact would be needed. The technology is out there it would just be very expensive and then you have the problem of producing the electricity. Do we use evil coal?

    Ahh, but then how would the greedy power companies be able to get their pound of flesh?

    As a side note...If you have ever been stuck on the PA Turnpike on the Sunday after Thanksgiving I don't think your EV would be very efficient.
    your very correct and what comes with it? Double or triple the taxes and double or triple the price you pay for power we pay and another nail in the coffin of the middle class.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    So if there’s nothing under the hood, does that give you a trunk in your pickup?
    Yes, its called a frunk
    East Tennessee

  7. #67
    Boolit Master
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    I bet ICE cars were the laughing stock of 99.9% of Americans during the first few years of the 20th century.
    East Tennessee

  8. #68
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    The bottom line question about electric cars is rarely discussed: how might they affect the CO2 level? The reason it isn't mentioned by the dominant liberal/fake news propaganda crowd is that electrics are not only unlikely to make much difference to world temps but the net difference will most likely be negative.

    No one with his head on straight hopes for the day emergency electric vehicles start coming on line; God help anyone depending on a new fangled electric ambulance or fire truck or cop car with a dead battery!

    However home recharging is done and how long it will require and how long the charge will last, the batteries MUST be charged or the magical vehicles are instantly useless. ALL dreamy promoter projections are based on the assumption that all things will remain as they are, i.e., a totally reliable electric power supply immediately at hand - and that is one very DUMM assumption!

    The hopeful idea of using solar cells and windmills to charge storage cells to feed the high lines AND to supply our needed power when the weather doesn't live up to expectations is DUMM! No wind for a few days? Forget windmills. No sun for a few days? Forget solar.

    A week of hurricane storm or wide area flooding will leave huge areas without meaningful surviving windmills OR cell farms. It often takes several weeks to restore damaged systems NOW and it will mean added weeks of no charged vehicle batteries in the affected areas. Add the time and costs of replacing thousands of acres of solar cells and destroyed wind farms and battery warehouses to the present time and costs to restore downed power lines and we'll see some huge increases in costs AND massive environmental damage just to get back to status quo.

    That's a bad reality but even if no such destruction ever occurs (fat chance), solar cells and wind driven generators quickly degrade and demand huge routine maintinance costs.

    Since it takes all our present electric systems can do to hold the line where we are it's obvious that if we depend on batteries to get us through a few long nights we must also have the present power system ready to take up the over the total load anytime the batteries collapse. We don't live in a vacuum, there is an unavoidable inneraction to everything; a Prius that could tow 6,000 pounds for 20 hours at 70 mph and gets 200 mpg is dead in its tracks if it can't be charged.

    The ONLY way to assure our present levels of electric power will be standing by to continue power plant operations, all set up, running at idle and ready to take over the load. Or we'll do without electricity. And it won't just be vehicles, it will be dead cell phones and silly thumb games, dead LEDS and neon lights. No working elevators or heating/cooling and toilet flushing water in tall buildings (think about the smell of that for a big city minute). And hordes of dead cars.

    So, NO, "saving" the world by reducing auto CO 2 isn't going to accomplish anything it isn't already doing; making lying rich folk like Algore richer.

    NO anticipated batteries could provide the power for many homes and businesses for hours or - a very important survival point that's never mentioned - serious industrial operations for more than a few minutes.

    Thus, we simply must keep the entire present power system in place and running as instant backup for any crisis that will surely come or people will die by the millions when all of the dreamy "renewable energy" battery powered systems die.

    So, you want to "Save the World" AND reduce poverty? Okay, me too. First, lets forget electric cars for now. Then, if we mean it, let's demand that lib politicians not be allowed to destroy the existing electrical and nuclear and fossil fuel power systems that have made our current pleasant lives possible, and even expand what we have into impoverished 3rd world countries. If we don't, all the people of the world, including America (excepting the rich of course), will be as desperately poor as Haiti, Cuba and Sudan by the end of this century.

    Global warming, such as it is, is caused by sun activity, not fossil fuels and/or CO 2. Try to get committed climate Chicken Littles to tell you what the global average world temperature should be; they'll twist and squirm a lot because they really don't have a clue. They're all quite sure we're all gonna die from sunstroke or heat rash or something else equally horrible if we don't get a Prius of our own this year but you will never get an honest answer, or even an honest guess, to that honest question!

  9. #69
    Boolit Master
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    So... rather than try to respond to all of that, I'm just going to point out that fossil fuels are government subsidized and that they are an intensely centralized and extremely vulnerable supply chain. Have we forgotten how one simple ransomware attack rendered the entire eastern part of the US immobile when the single pipeline shut down? Even with current battery technology, many types of renewable energy and storage can be inherently decentralized, which (when done right) results in a more stable grid.

    There is no perfect solution, and the Lord knows that solar, wind, and the other technologies that go with them need a lot of work, but I'll say this: I get quite a bit of sunshine and wind at my house, but I don't see a single drop of gasoline unless I bring it there. For someone who doesn't trust in the ability of the established power structure to cope with catastrophic events gracefully, that is a big plus in my book. A home battery and wind+solar are on our long-term investment roadmap for a reason, and it's not because of climate change.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  10. #70
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1 View Post
    I think we would have to see some sort of power induction system place in major roadways. Something similar to the old overhead power systems the trollies use, but this would be under ground and no direct contact would be needed. The technology is out there it would just be very expensive and then you have the problem of producing the electricity. Do we use evil coal?
    Man, that's rational so don't ask that! Greenie-wiennies speak in bumper sticker quips, they never have to answer questions like that! ()

    Libs only work on one problem at a time and the problem of finding enough power to recharge tens of millions of hungry auto batteries overnight is much too large to fit on their plate right now, never mind thinking of how to add and maintain such systems into highway surfaces AND into the vehicles themselves.

  11. #71
    Boolit Master
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    Green is a religion for kids.....taught in schools via the "oldies are stealing our future spiel"....IMHO ,in 10 years the tipping point for IC will be reached ,and it will be increasingly difficult to use an IC vehicle .....sure they will still be legal ,but the schoolkid greens of today will be the politicians climbing the slippery pole in 10 years....The other trend here is "oldies are rich from land price rises .....they should not be able to keep all this money they have never earned."

  12. #72
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    They can do all they want to do to ease Global Warming, until they rein in China and India, no hope. The only reason they got a by, is because they refused to sign the accords, until it was based on population. (Per capita) That's why the Accords are a bunch of junk.
    One of my father's favorite statements: "If I say a chicken dips snuff, look under his wing for the snuffbox" How I was raised, who I am.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    I bet ICE cars were the laughing stock of 99.9% of Americans during the first few years of the 20th century.
    I doubt to many were laughing. Im sure some couldnt afford one so critisized but fact is we already knew we were sitting on billions of gallons of oil right under our feet. Right where the left seems to think the electric fairy lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    The bottom line question about electric cars is rarely discussed: how might they affect the CO2 level? The reason it isn't mentioned by the dominant liberal/fake news propaganda crowd is that electrics are not only unlikely to make much difference to world temps but the net difference will most likely be negative.

    No one with his head on straight hopes for the day emergency electric vehicles start coming on line; God help anyone depending on a new fangled electric ambulance or fire truck or cop car with a dead battery!

    However home recharging is done and how long it will require and how long the charge will last, the batteries MUST be charged or the magical vehicles are instantly useless. ALL dreamy promoter projections are based on the assumption that all things will remain as they are, i.e., a totally reliable electric power supply immediately at hand - and that is one very DUMM assumption!

    The hopeful idea of using solar cells and windmills to charge storage cells to feed the high lines AND to supply our needed power when the weather doesn't live up to expectations is DUMM! No wind for a few days? Forget windmills. No sun for a few days? Forget solar.

    A week of hurricane storm or wide area flooding will leave huge areas without meaningful surviving windmills OR cell farms. It often takes several weeks to restore damaged systems NOW and it will mean added weeks of no charged vehicle batteries in the affected areas. Add the time and costs of replacing thousands of acres of solar cells and destroyed wind farms and battery warehouses to the present time and costs to restore downed power lines and we'll see some huge increases in costs AND massive environmental damage just to get back to status quo.

    That's a bad reality but even if no such destruction ever occurs (fat chance), solar cells and wind driven generators quickly degrade and demand huge routine maintinance costs.

    Since it takes all our present electric systems can do to hold the line where we are it's obvious that if we depend on batteries to get us through a few long nights we must also have the present power system ready to take up the over the total load anytime the batteries collapse. We don't live in a vacuum, there is an unavoidable inneraction to everything; a Prius that could tow 6,000 pounds for 20 hours at 70 mph and gets 200 mpg is dead in its tracks if it can't be charged.

    The ONLY way to assure our present levels of electric power will be standing by to continue power plant operations, all set up, running at idle and ready to take over the load. Or we'll do without electricity. And it won't just be vehicles, it will be dead cell phones and silly thumb games, dead LEDS and neon lights. No working elevators or heating/cooling and toilet flushing water in tall buildings (think about the smell of that for a big city minute). And hordes of dead cars.

    So, NO, "saving" the world by reducing auto CO 2 isn't going to accomplish anything it isn't already doing; making lying rich folk like Algore richer.

    NO anticipated batteries could provide the power for many homes and businesses for hours or - a very important survival point that's never mentioned - serious industrial operations for more than a few minutes.

    Thus, we simply must keep the entire present power system in place and running as instant backup for any crisis that will surely come or people will die by the millions when all of the dreamy "renewable energy" battery powered systems die.

    So, you want to "Save the World" AND reduce poverty? Okay, me too. First, lets forget electric cars for now. Then, if we mean it, let's demand that lib politicians not be allowed to destroy the existing electrical and nuclear and fossil fuel power systems that have made our current pleasant lives possible, and even expand what we have into impoverished 3rd world countries. If we don't, all the people of the world, including America (excepting the rich of course), will be as desperately poor as Haiti, Cuba and Sudan by the end of this century.

    Global warming, such as it is, is caused by sun activity, not fossil fuels and/or CO 2. Try to get committed climate Chicken Littles to tell you what the global average world temperature should be; they'll twist and squirm a lot because they really don't have a clue. They're all quite sure we're all gonna die from sunstroke or heat rash or something else equally horrible if we don't get a Prius of our own this year but you will never get an honest answer, or even an honest guess, to that honest question!
    good post. IT AINT HAPPENING. Our electrical grid cant keep up now. Even if they taxed the crap out of us it would take a decades to rebuild it to the point it can handle two cars in every yard and every commercial vehicle on the road. All this is is socialism. The government demanding you buy something even though they know its not economically feasible. Same politicians that have stock in green energy companies. Same politicians like our president that cave to the pressure from the far left hippys. There already forcing it.

    The car manufactures are making them for three reasons. First is the government gives them no choice. Then because they are using OUR tax money to subsidies the research and development of this technology. Wouldnt henry ford just loved to get billions of tax dollars when he was switching from the model T to the model A. Wouldnt the wright brothers loved to have the government give them a million bucks to research air planes. If it was an economically sound route for car manufactures to go they would have been doing it way before the government forced them. Lastly the government subsidizes the hippys buying them with OUR tax money. Tell you what. Id sure love the government to pay 30 percent of the cost of my next ram or jeep. If any one of those things goes away this will drop like a rock and your electric car will rot in the garage because NOBODY will give you a dime for it and it will fail.

    The government will shell out or tax dollars until they get LAWS PASSED FORCING YOU TO BUY ONE (socialism) and the incentives will stop cold. Or a logical thinking administration will be elected again and the big bucks ford gm and chrysler are getting to pay for research will stop immediately and a logical government will tell them. This country is a free enterprise county. YOU PAY to build your product and if its sells you win and if it doesnt you loose. That is the way its been since the constitution was signed. Like one hole said.

    You guys here cheering this or even bending over and saying that even if it doesnt makes sense youd better get used to it are sure not the same people i want fighting for my gun rights. Its like biden saying take the guns out of the hands of the citizens and killings will stop. Making everyone drive electric cars is going to save the planet. There is ABSOLUTELY no proof it will ever reduce pollution. Yup if you drive one side by side next to my ram it pollutes less. WHY? Because its pollution isnt measured at the tail pipe. It has none. Its pollution is measured at that coal fired smoke belching power plant 40 miles away. Its measured in the thermal pollution a power plant creates buy pumping water through its condensers (ever see a power plant that wasnt on a lake or river?) Its created by the eye sore of beautiful land being used to build ugly power plants. VASTLY larger and higher numbers of transmission power lines going through the wilderness. The ugliness of larger power lines in your neighborhood and transformers twice the size. ALL of which will create MUCH more pollution manufacturing. These are the dirty little facts they hide from you. Personaly i find it sad that i come to a forum where mostly conservatives hang out and so many that will have there guns pried out of there cold dead fingers will turn around and bend over for this total line of bs that is fabricated by the FAR LEFT we detest so much. Just keep in mind that these same liberal hippys that fabricate this fallacy of saving the world from your polluting pickup and want to force you to drive an electric prius are the ones that want your guns and want to ban lead because of the pollution it causes. I just cant believe even one guy here is to stupid to not understand what the lefts real agenda is in this. Thats controlling YOUR LIFE.

    Dont come cry to me when they make your f150 illegal to drive on the road and force you to either take a bike or buy some little electric go cart for 75k that takes electricity that cost 3 times what it does today to go to the store and buy a loaf of bread that cost 15 bucks. All the while your doing this those same polititians that forced it on you will be richer more powerful flying around on air planes partying and when they land they will be picked up by armed secret service (the new Gestapo) in a 30 foot armored stretch limo and drove to there mulit million dollar homes with more security then the prisons they emptied. This isnt about electric cars its about socialism. Sad some are to stupid to see it. Comical thing is when these things happen and the very well could the same guys here excepting it will be the loudest cry babbys and will be blaming every one but the real guilty person, THEMSELVES.
    Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 07-23-2021 at 05:48 AM.

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    one last thing for the "Its inevitable" bunch. Open your eyes and look at the loudest proponents for forcing this down our throats. The politicians your liberal neighbors, even your own garage and see how much other then lip service anyone has really done. They all want you to be forced but if they truly believed wouldnt they already be trying to save the planet. Would the new green deal be something that doesnt need any laws to force it on us. If it truely was intelligent to follow it wouldnt all of us already be doing it? Dont know about you but if someone could show me how i could run my home and vehicles not even cheaper but just as cheap with some new green techology that would REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE difference wouldnt most of us half way intellegent conservatives be leading the change.

  16. #76
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    The mention of wind power was made. My wife related an article she read just recently that many of the early wind turbines are becoming obsolete or unrepairable economically. Evidently the blades, or some other parts, from these turbines are unrecyclable and are being buried on site or at land fills.
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1 View Post
    The mention of wind power was made. My wife related an article she read just recently that many of the early wind turbines are becoming obsolete or unrepairable economically. Evidently the blades, or some other parts, from these turbines are unrecyclable and are being buried on site or at land fills.
    Yeah, I can't say I'm surprised, especially about the early ones. I believe the newer ones are better, but you can guarantee that government subsidies have distorted the market considerably and costs will be out of whack. When making long-term investments the devil is in the details, and when folks are so busy screaming about climate change that they're not paying attention they don't pay attention to the details.

    Hopefully progress is made in this area, wind power has enough challenges without bad lifecycle management being added to the list.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    one last thing for the "Its inevitable" bunch. Open your eyes and look at the loudest proponents for forcing this down our throats. The politicians your liberal neighbors, even your own garage and see how much other then lip service anyone has really done. They all want you to be forced but if they truly believed wouldnt they already be trying to save the planet. Would the new green deal be something that doesnt need any laws to force it on us. If it truely was intelligent to follow it wouldnt all of us already be doing it? Dont know about you but if someone could show me how i could run my home and vehicles not even cheaper but just as cheap with some new green techology that would REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE difference wouldnt most of us half way intellegent conservatives be leading the change.
    So.... don't know about all the rest of it, but depending on where you live, the return on investment for a solar+battery system can be less than a decade. That means you come out ahead monetarily from that point on, quite apart from the benefits of power during power outages, etc. This is a real thing that real people are actually doing and actually saving money with or achieving grid independence with, not just the raving greenies. There are gotchas that you have to think about, like buying from an established and stable vendor so your warranty is worth a damn in case something goes wrong, things like that, but still. The worse the electricity prices get as they phase out coal and gas, the faster your ROI will happen.
    Last edited by Daekar; 07-23-2021 at 09:07 AM.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by imashooter2 View Post
    There is nothing green about electric cars. They cost oil and coal to make, the mining for the batteries is a blight on the planet and they are recharged with coal through a system that is already taxed to its breaking point.

    They only sell because of fashion and government subsidies.
    Well said!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daekar View Post
    So.... don't know about all the rest of it, but depending on where you live, the return on investment for a solar+battery system can be less than a decade. That means you come out ahead monetarily from that point on, quite apart from the benefits of power during power outages, etc. This is a real thing that real people are actually doing and actually saving money with or achieving grid independence with, not just the raving greenies. There are gotchas that you have to think about, like buying from an established and stable vendor so your warranty is worth a damn in case something goes wrong, things like that, but still. The worse the electricity prices get as they phase out coal and gas, the faster your ROI will happen.
    ive been told the break even comes at 15 to 20 years and thats up here where electrical rates are some of the highest in the country. Which ironical is about the time they need rebuilding. Add two more things to that. Technology improves. What you buy now will be obsolete in 10 years. Im 65 now and even 10 more is rolling the dice. Add to that i like my yard and the woods around me. I dont want an ugly solar array in my back yard or sitting up on my roof. Add to that maybe youd recoup more faster if you lived in AZ or ca but i live in northern michigan where we have WINTER!! In the winter its nothing for a week to go by with no sun. Heck even a month. NOPE right now TODAY at TODAYS technology level we have two choices. COAL AND NUKE. Bottom line too is raise your hand if you have 30k to lay out without taking out a second morgage. I own my home and am not borrowing on it so the bank owns it again. So ill pay my electric bill that the goverment will make more and more expensive with these pipe dreams. Ill heat that house with propane and wood. Ill drive a car and truck with a push rod v8 and a jeep with a push rod gas v6 because the v8 wranglers are just to expensive. Ill do this till the pry them from my cold dead fingers. If you want to do it another way then have at it but dont try to convince me your saving money or even more green then me. If evil Lloyd causes global warming which from what ive read wont even be noticeable for a 100 years so be it. My guess is my great great grandkids will be starving from overpopulation by them if there even is people. Some alien life forms will discover earth in 200 years and look at those solar pannels and wind generators and have a good laugh and say WHAT WERE THEY THINKING. No matter how it turns out it wont bother me. Ill be dead!

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