Ford battery powered pick-up

[MaryB]

So, not to denigrate you, but all you have done is to REDUCE your electric demand. You are NOT solar only, and while what you've done may work for you, it won't work for 99% of the population.
24v lighting and limited power just isnt on anyone's thoughts.

I see the scams advertised now on the local scale where just be getting the power company to pay you for your solar panels power generation. Scam. You borrow $20 to 50k and then get the power company who is forced to buy your unneeded power at full retail. Yes your bill is close to zero, but you pay the same if not way more to the solar panel company. and yes almost all panels have a 20 year life. so you might break even if you are lucky...



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If you read my post I put this in as backup power, and I may as well reduce my electric bill while I am at it! Primary use is backup, outages happen here many times a year because the power system dates from 1950!

[MaryB]

I know nothing about connecting solar panels to houses, but I really doubt anyone is re wiring their house for DC. All solar panels I've dealt with have been 12 volts as well, although that was small scale stuff, maybe they make panels for different voltages. Either way, inverters exist. There's no reason why you wouldn't run your DC voltage to an inverter, and get your normal 120 VAC to your house. Even my fish house has that.

Yes, beware the scams. It sounds like wind and solar both have rampant scammers ready to sell you something.

Having $2500+++ of charge controller, batteries, inverters at the panels is not practical... MPPT charge controllers can accept up to 150 volts for the one I use, some go as high as 600! They down convert to match your battery bank voltage and can gain 20% more charge than a PWM charge controller. I am running 4 panels in series for 90 volts DC I run to the house. This keeps copper losses/expense down by being able to run smaller copper wire. But larger than I normally would for only 3% voltage drop.

My system is unusual because it is primarily backup power I use to reduce my electric bill buy having zones with their own smaller inverter. Yes I ran 24 volt DC around the house for lighting, wire needed was cheap with under a 1 amp load per light.

[MaryB]

bottom line is if it really worked and saved money and made sense there would be solar panels in every neighborhood in the country. What they are good for are people like mary who are willing to make sacrifices and even then most still need a grid hookup. Only people that can afford to be energy independent have money and are more concerned about being energy independent then actually saving money. I pay @2k a year to have power and the luxury of having whatever electrical convivence i want. Not just necessities but luxuries. It would take a serious solar system just to fire up my 1000 watt rcbs melting pot for 2 hours to cast some bullets.

I am 95 percent of America. Im 65 and love the fact that if im cold i can just turn up the thermostat and if i want my Mr coffee to be on all night. My two fridges and 3 freezers running all the time. Lights? hit a switch. Hot water. Open a faucet. I worked hard all my life to be to the point i dont have to worry about going out in a storm and starting my generator because the sun hasnt shinned in 10 days. Dont have to go out and cut a cord of firewood because my supply ran out because this winter was a bit tougher.

Nothing wrong with those who do. Some even enjoy it. Me? Id rather cast some bullets or go shooting. Now if i could spend 10k and use all the electricity i use today with no worry about conserving and that 10k would get me by for the next 10 years id be crunching numbers. Now im not talking 10k in material because lets be realistic. There might be a half a dozen here out of hundreds that have the knowlege and ability mary has to build and maintain a system that big. So the reality is that system that might cost mary 10k would cost most here twice that. So if i look at 20k for 10 years im loosing money. 20k for 15 years and im breaking even. That is if i can get enough kwh's out of a 20k system, dont have any issues with it that i have to call the repair man for and at 65 im rolling the dice that ill even be here for 15 more years.

Then lets throw one more monkey wrench into the system. What happens to people like Mary that have had to sacrifice already to get by when if the liberals stay in power we are forced to drive electric cars and trucks A system that powers a water pump and some dc load sure isnt going to charge a full sized pickup you need to haul firewood. Heck most homes hook up to the grid wont allow that without some major upgrades.

Grid tie is plug and play... heck go micro inverter at each panel and a 240 volt line to the panels form your main breaker box and done. The inverter plugs into the panel via a fool proof connector, 240 volts goes to each micro inverter(they are wired in parallel). Each inverter is 295 watts and needs a 300+ watt panel(most use a 360 watt, it is extra on time before sunset with the extra overhead) https://www.altestore.com/store/inve...erters-p40450/. $149 each so a 3kw system is $1500 for inverters, add 10 of these mid range solar panels(good brand, budget minded) at a cost of $1900. Add in $1000 for racking and wire... $500 for the gateway monitoring system.. call it $5k for a 3kw+ system that will produce 15kw a day or 450+kwh a month... that is 3/4 of my electric bill most months... 4 year payback... at MN rates, each state is different for grid tie so research before jumping!

[MaryB]

Why exactly would you do this? Are you rewiring the house with separate outlets and switches? Are you only installing switches and lights?

I went with separate switches and lights. Switches have to be DC rated in case of a short. LED lights draw 1-2 amps MAX at 24 volts and that is a very bright light. I bought 250 feet of 14 gauge power cord with ground. With such low current draw it is plenty and the jacket is tough for puling in walls and ceilings. Plus it won't be mistaken for 120 volt AC wiring! Everything is labeled 24 volts so anyone coming after me knows what it is. I lose power I have lights without candles, flashlights etc. And no generator to start up when it is -20f with windchill hitting -50f... My pellet stove is 12 volts as is all my amateur radio equipment so I use a 24 to 12 volt convertor for them. I can run 3 days off battery, heat 2 freezers, fridge, furnace when it kicks in to make up heat(about 4 times a day).

[Lloyd Smale]

Grid tie is plug and play... heck go micro inverter at each panel and a 240 volt line to the panels form your main breaker box and done. The inverter plugs into the panel via a fool proof connector, 240 volts goes to each micro inverter(they are wired in parallel). Each inverter is 295 watts and needs a 300+ watt panel(most use a 360 watt, it is extra on time before sunset with the extra overhead) https://www.altestore.com/store/inve...erters-p40450/. $149 each so a 3kw system is $1500 for inverters, add 10 of these mid range solar panels(good brand, budget minded) at a cost of $1900. Add in $1000 for racking and wire... $500 for the gateway monitoring system.. call it $5k for a 3kw+ system that will produce 15kw a day or 450+kwh a month... that is 3/4 of my electric bill most months... 4 year payback... at MN rates, each state is different for grid tie so research before jumping!

what shuts your power going out off when theres an outage? Is there an automatic switch you have to buy too. You sure dont want to be pumping power into a downed line someone is working on. Is there actually electrical code for dc wiring and protection in your home. Dc power is much more dangerous then AC.

[Mal Paso]

what shuts your power going out off when theres an outage? Is there an automatic switch you have to buy too. You sure dont want to be pumping power into a downed line someone is working on. Is there actually electrical code for dc wiring and protection in your home. Dc power is much more dangerous then AC.

The grid tie inverters won't run if the utility is down, there has to be utility voltage present. Beyond that the utilities ground both ends of lines being worked on. Not like the old days when they worked a lot of jobs hot.

Grid tie inverters Have to time their output to the utility AC Cycle to begin with, fail safe is fairly easy.

[megasupermagnum]

Having $2500+++ of charge controller, batteries, inverters at the panels is not practical... MPPT charge controllers can accept up to 150 volts for the one I use, some go as high as 600! They down convert to match your battery bank voltage and can gain 20% more charge than a PWM charge controller. I am running 4 panels in series for 90 volts DC I run to the house. This keeps copper losses/expense down by being able to run smaller copper wire. But larger than I normally would for only 3% voltage drop.

My system is unusual because it is primarily backup power I use to reduce my electric bill buy having zones with their own smaller inverter. Yes I ran 24 volt DC around the house for lighting, wire needed was cheap with under a 1 amp load per light.

I guess I still don't understand. Did you do all the work yourself, sheetrock and all? Surely there is more than $2500 just in the sheetrock, paint, and labor required to pull wire just for lights.

[MaryB]

I guess I still don't understand. Did you do all the work yourself, sheetrock and all? Surely there is more than $2500 just in the sheetrock, paint, and labor required to pull wire just for lights.

Yes I did the labor. You have plus and minus from the solar stuff, didn't do any drywall damage(I made sure to leave access conduits for low voltage add ons like speakers etc when I remodeled). It isn't hard to use a fish tape to get thru a ceiling joist space either, done plenty of that helping my dad wire houses and at the casino pulling slot machine wires.

[Gator 45/70]

Come on, I can melt lead in my attic this time of the year,The solar will have to wait until November.
MaryB. Sounds like a extremally doable set up, If one is good with their hands then why not?

[Lloyd Smale]

yup Mary, your in a pretty unique group that knows this stuff and is sharp enough to work through the problems and get it done without hiring a tech. Im sure that about cuts the cost of your system in half. Makes recouping the costs much more doable. I was a lineman for 30 years. I do know electricity but im FAR from an expert in electronics. matter of fact i still have my old flip phone. Dont much know a resistor from a computer chip and its a bit to late to teach this old dog new tricks. I have to applaud you. This may sound like a slap to women but your one in a million. I dont even personaly know a women that has even heard of ohms law let alone could set up a working solar system.

[MaryB]

If you can swap a battery in a car you can setup a solar power system(simple one, not as complex as mine, I do some voltage dependent switching and have transfer switches to drop loads back on grid if needed). As I said, you have a positive and negative coming from the soar panels, goes to the +- on the charge controller after connecting your solar battery +- to it. Inverter +- connects to battery. You now have a functional power backup system.

[rockrat]

I am sure its as easy as P=IE. ( Had to get that in before someone else beat me to it!!)

[Handloader109]

If you can swap a battery in a car you can setup a solar power system(simple one, not as complex as mine, I do some voltage dependent switching and have transfer switches to drop loads back on grid if needed). As I said, you have a positive and negative coming from the soar panels, goes to the +- on the charge controller after connecting your solar battery +- to it. Inverter +- connects to battery. You now have a functional power backup system.

Young lady, there is maybe 5% of the population under 40 that can correctly identify a screwdriver, hammer and pliers. Forget about changing a battery, only 2% can identify and find the battery.
Solar systems that are being sold today come installed and are entirely sold based on selling the power generated back to the grid.
But you've intrigued me. I do need to research what you are doing more. I'm out in the woods 7 miles from town and would be a while getting power back on if major outage like ice storm. Need a better backup than just a generator.

Ha, an aside, generac now has a solar battery backup system. about $20 to 30k installed for medium to large system. 10 yr warranty on It. ..

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[Fishman]

I have several sayings I remember to try and remind myself to remain humble. One is "Everyone has something they can teach me". Some people obviously are experts on certain things and easier to spot. It's the not-so-obvious ones that always surprise me.

[.429&H110]

I have been following this and just re-read it to see if anybody answered:

Do electric cars have air conditioning?

Will batteries run the A/C for two hours stuck on the Jersey Pike at 90F?
(I once spent the afternoon waiting for the carnage to clear.)

Do electric cars have heaters?

My 20yo Tacoma has 160hp, downhill at redline... towed the boat just fine... but at -40F in Fairbanks, I put cardboard on the radiator to defrost the windshield. I don't see how a battery car can live there.
In my grandfather's day the Stanley Steamers had no windshield wipers. Who would ever want to drive in the rain? The Stanley Steamers are museum pieces now, but we'll need them after the EMP attack.

[Wisest.fool]

First i would like to preface this on saying i am not an expert, but the topic fascinates me.

History:
I used to be an avid R/C pilot before i joined the army and you couldn't budge me off the nitromethanol/caster oil engines to go electric. fast forward 15 years. wanted to get my son one to fly together. cannot find nitro engines because brushless electric is both more powerful and efficient. Difference? batteries and better brushless motors. Tried one and I am impressed. i can fly just as long if not more and a quick battery swap and im back to flying while the other one charges.

I drive a truck and don't plan on doing electric until one thing changes:

bringing this thread back towards the original posters topic, EVs have along way to go before they become viable for long distance. And someone already somewhat covered this. The power density of lithium based batteries far exceeds older rechargeable tech such as lead acid, nickle cadmium(NiCD) and nickle metal hydride NiMH. It has brought us to the 300ish mile range under ideal conditions. The batteries still degrade over time though. This is due to the formations of dendrites. They have to be charged/discharged slowly(well some are quite fast but they cannot exceed a certain rate) to prevent the formations of these which could cause the battery to explode (and I can vouch that they explode quite violently we use them in military radios and we have to dispose of them carefully and not in the burn pit. Did that. Thought we were in contact for about 5 minutes!!! fun times.). And before someone goes on about that I would like to remind everyone that gasoline in fact explodes under the right circumstances such as inside internal combustion engines. You are dealing with two very high energy dense substances! I could go into more depth on this but the jist is the current battery technology is not efficient enough to allow for long distance trips.

Solution: more efficient(Power dense and quicker recharging) batteries. There are several companies that are working on just this problem. They are moving towards electrical storage that more closely resembles a capacitor than a battery. For those of you who don't know what a capacitor is it stores energy as electrostatic energy. like getting shocked with static. it builds up and then zap. batteries store electricity in a chemical reaction. There are several batteries being developed that behave much like a capacitor able to charge and discharge extremely rapidly. And several more that are trying to eliminate heavy metals and they are the most costly part of modern batteries. Either direction would work. Batteries than can charge in minutes instead of hours would bring EV to the point it could be viable for long distance. or batteries that are cheaper would make them more efficient on the pocketbook and potentially allow for easily swapping them.

I really find the idea fascinating. Is it really viable right now for my lifestyle? Possibly, I am boring and drive to work and home most days. I do drive 120 miles to catch redfish in the gulf and twice a year I drive home to see the folks. my hunting area is within the range of most EV. and the range is literally a mile from where i work on base. I can and have rode my bicycle to work(4-8 miles) many days when i don't have to take all my military gear with me. Its good PT.

Make it so i can charge my vehicle in 5 minutes with stations close enough that its not a pain in my a$$. I will buy in at that point. If i could charge it off solar at my house that would just be a bonus. and running my house off my car in a hurricane sounds great(thank you Laura and Delta which both passed over my house for my brand new 7KW generator).

Until then i agree forcing electric on people is wrong

[Smoke4320]

When my wife was working, one of her co-worker purchased a Chevy volt at the beginning of the summer. She would come to work and brag about not having to buy gas and how great the car was. Flash forward to the beginning of winter. The car was on charge all night in her garage on a very cold night. She went out hopped in her car got about three miles from the house and had to call a tow truck because the cold weather killed the battery instantly. Now this wasn't in Michigan, North Dakota or Montana, this was in Gaithersburg Maryland just outside Washington, D. C.

If I wanted to go from here in Martinsburg, WV to where my son lives about halfway between Pittsburg and Erie, I would probably have to make it a two day trip just so I could stop somewhere and charge the battery...if I could find a hotel that has a charging station.

If you could find a hotel with a charging station that was unused at the time YOU needed it.

[trebor44]

Has this been addressed: driving down a waterway (flooded street etc.) with an electric vehicle during monsoon season for a half mile or more?

[bangerjim]

Solar is great......if you have 360+ days of sun like we do here in PHX! I run my ENTIRE 3200 sqft 2 story house (totally electric) off of an 8K solar panel array. That is 2 big heat pumps, VFD for the pool, high efficiency dishwasher, high efficiency dryer and clothes washer, all the LED electric lights, computers, TV's, etc. Any extra 220V ac power is sold back into the grid automatically. At night I buy power from the grid. Very efficient. My bill went form almost $300/mo to around $73/mo (yearly average plan).

Solar in cars/trucks is totally another idea that I think is stupid. Would mabe work here in AZ, but most places there is not enough sun to keep the massive batteries required charged.

And FORD totally battery trucks? OMG. Fix Or Repair Daily cars are total carp. FORD trucks are great............with gasoline engines!!!!!!! And the power that comes with them. Why spoil a good thing, just for some lame woke stooges.

[uscra112]

Well, this will be the decider for some people:

Ford Has Created A Fragrance Designed To Smell Like Gasoline

"A claimed 70 percent of electric car buyers said they would miss the smell of gas when switching to a plug-in vehicle. This is according to Ford, which to promote its upcoming Mach-E GT has created a fragrance intended to smell like petroleum."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alistai...m_content=link