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Thread: Converted .17WSM to .25 Stevens rimfire

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Converted .17WSM to .25 Stevens rimfire

    I don't even own a .25 Stevens rifle. But I've read about different ways to make brass, including conversion from .17 WSM. So out of curiosity, I decided to see if it was possible.

    First I had to make a simple fixture to hold the case to pull the bullet and expand the case mouth. Then a 3-step mandrel was made from a 1/4" bolt to expand the mouth from .168" to .250".

    It took some trial and error, and a few wrecked cases - but I figured it out. It really comes down to annealing the case mouth thoroughly first.

    The first couple cases I did, I tried to anneal them, but was concerned about heat getting to the priming compound. I didnt heat them enough and they both split. This time I filled the case with new crushed walnut media to just below the neck. This provided an insulating barrier. Then I held it at the base with a wet, folded paper towel. This helped keep the base and my fingers cool. The case mouth was rotated in the tip of a propane torch flame for 15 seconds. Then quickly the walnut media was dumped out and the case mouth, upside down was dunked into a shallow bowl of water to quench. I was careful not to let water get deep inside.

    After annealing, the 3-step expander was put in the drill press, and the case into the fixture that was clamped in a vise anchored to the table. With Imperial sizing wax applied to the mandrel, it was slowly and repeatedly worked up and down until the mouth was fully expanded.

    The case length came out at 1.175". The original .25 Stevens case was 1.125". So it was a simple matter of trimming it back .050" to make a perfect .25 Stevens case.

    Now that I know it is possible, I may keep my eye out for a rifle
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PhotoGrid_Plus_1626467142616.jpg  

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
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    The only part that makes me nervous is the annealing of a primed case. Your use of walnut media as an insulator seems to take care of that issue.

    I have read that the .17WSM cases are made a lot stronger than the old rifles were designed for and may have trouble getting reliable ignition.

    I know I have passed on a few old single shots in .25 Stevens or .25-10 due to unobtainium ammo.

    Robert

  3. #3
    Boolit Master



    ddixie884's Avatar
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    Cool................
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    I too have heard of ignition problems with these. It seems to primarilly be with the smaller boys rifles. But larger rifles like a Stevens 44 or #2 rolling block may work better. I passed on a really nice low wall a few years ago. If I were to come across another, I'd be more inclined to go for it.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    A true experimenter seeing as how you don't even own the rifle . . . yet

    It appears that you have it clamped to a drill press - are you spinning the expanding mandrel or just using it like in lieu of an arbor press.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnchf View Post
    I too have heard of ignition problems with these. It seems to primarilly be with the smaller boys rifles. But larger rifles like a Stevens 44 or #2 rolling block may work better. I passed on a really nice low wall a few years ago. If I were to come across another, I'd be more inclined to go for it.
    I've heard this as well but don't understand the mechanics of the issue. Can someone explain

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanghai Jack View Post
    A true experimenter seeing as how you don't even own the rifle . . . yet

    It appears that you have it clamped to a drill press - are you spinning the expanding mandrel or just using it like in lieu of an arbor press.
    It is not spinning. It was simply a way to both firmly anchor the case and have an easily controllable way to run the 3- diameter expander in and out.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    You know there used to be a place called Federal Arms that sold primed 22 rimfire brass. I wonder if Winchester would sell primed but not yet charged WSM brass. I'm guessing not due to liability issues

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanghai Jack View Post
    I've heard this as well but don't understand the mechanics of the issue. Can someone explain
    I think it comes down to mass and kinetic energy of the hammer. In some cases the boys rifles just dont have enough kinetic energy to fire the tougher .17WSM rims. I've encountered a similiar issue with other reloadable big bore rimfires Im working with. .22 starter pistol blanks work fine in my 32s and 44s, but sometimes puncture in military .56-50s. For these I use tougher Ramset blanks. They stand up to the heavier hammer blow.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnchf View Post
    I think it comes down to mass and kinetic energy of the hammer. In some cases the boys rifles just dont have enough kinetic energy to fire the tougher .17WSM rims. I've encountered a similiar issue with other reloadable big bore rimfires Im working with. .22 starter pistol blanks work fine in my 32s and 44s, but sometimes puncture in military .56-50s. For these I use tougher Ramset blanks. They stand up to the heavier hammer blow.
    Too bad you're so far away. I have a box of .22 blanks for a Ramset (or similar) that I've been trying to give away for about five years.........

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    The .17WSM brass has to be much stronger because the pressure is so much higher than even current .22 LR. The older boys' rifles were designed when rimfire ammo had copper cases, and probably never exceeded 8000 psi.

    (Modern .22 ammo seems to be loaded to no more than 12,000 psi, in spite of the SAAMI specs. I think this is why it still functions in these old rifles.)
    Cognitive Dissident

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Here is the gadget I made for annealing. No media inside the shell, but rather it is stood up in a little cup of cold water and rotated at about 45 RPM to get uniform heating. Doing both would be even better.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2303-193207.jpg   2303-193001.jpg  
    Cognitive Dissident

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I am shooting these reformed cases in a Stevens 44, which has plenty of energy due to the much heavier hammer and stiffer spring. I also have a Stevens Model 83 bolt action single shot from about 1938 that reliably fires them. Most Model 83s were .22, but a few escaped the factory as .25s. Possibly the last factory rifles ever made for the .25 Stevens. If you see one, grab it.
    Cognitive Dissident

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    I may have to try this, as I have a Remington Rolling Block No. 4 chambered in .25 Stevens rimfire...

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Your annealing solution could be refined with a split block of aluminum that has a series of holes to clamp cases. Rig up a holder that keeps the bases in bit of water, then easily flip them to quench if desired. Cool idea to work with a old cartridge.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    I now have a centerfire breech block. I've made about 50 centerfire cases from .22 Hornet. It shoots very well.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Not sure this is a possibility, but I wonder if, after having fired the rimfire cases, they could be saved, and converted to centerfire by:

    1. Being annealed and internally cleaned (chemically?), using a small pistol primer-sized swage tool to indent and stretch the head material to form a primer pocket.

    2. The void in the hollow rim and the gap between the case wall and primer hump soldered/brazed up with a measured quantity of low temp/high strength solder like High Force 44 (Brownell's?), using enough to fill all voids and provide a strengthening fillet radius from the top of the primer pocket hump up the side of the case wall, producing a solid-head case approximately .150-.180" thick.

    3. Center-drill a flash hole .075-.080". (I use a small primer pocket drill guide made from a 1/4-20 socket-head set screw center-bored through 5/64" and the threads on the end turned down to .172 with a stop-nut for depth and to hold it square to the case head when I convert Berdan cases to Boxer.)

    Sound like a plan? I have no access to any .25 Stevens stuff, but if a center-fire version ever came about, I might take up squirrel hunting again. The .22 RF is good, but it could be better. An inside-lubed boolit of my own choosing in a larger caliber I can reload calls to me.

  18. #18
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    Very nice job I might get the girl back on the firing line again yet.
    I still have a box of 25 rimfire for my wife's 25 Steven model 1915.
    I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left.
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    Looking for a Hensly &Gibbs #258 any thing from a two cavity to a 10cavityI found a new one from a member here

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    The .25 Stevens centerfire I made from .22 Hornet brass work great. The little rifle is quite a tackdriver!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20210927_185741_copy_365x623_001.jpg   20210828_161036_copy_1008x265.jpg  

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Show 'em the converted Hornet case you made that uses the 6mm acorn blank as primer. No change to breechblock required.
    Cognitive Dissident

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