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Thread: Converted .17WSM to .25 Stevens rimfire

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    Here is the .25 Stevens case made from .22 Hornet, then converted to rimfire. It uses a .22 acorn blank as the rimfire primer. They are a bit of work to make, but work well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20210929_184452.jpg  

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    They're less work to make than converting the .17WSM, in my book. But it does require a lathe.

    The .17WSM rim has a radius behind it. Most old rifles will be loose enough not to notice, but I had to chamfer the chamber mouth of my minty Model 83 to accept them. A modified Hornet case doesn't have that problem.
    Cognitive Dissident

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    They're less work to make than converting the .17WSM, in my book. But it does require a lathe.

    The .17WSM rim has a radius behind it. Most old rifles will be loose enough not to notice, but I had to chamfer the chamber mouth of my minty Model 83 to accept them. A modified Hornet case doesn't have that problem.
    Yes, I agree. The .17 WSM cases are quite thick in the rim making reliable ignition in small boys rifles problematic. The acorn blanks or centerfire cases have no reliability issues.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    can somebody fill me in on the difference in performance between .25 Stevens CF and the .25 Hornet wildcat?

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    The .25 Stevens round was originally a black powder rimfire number, and MANY rifles made for it cannot stand loads in excess of 9500 psi or so. Subsonic, in other words. Standard bullet was 65 grains, plain lead.

    The .25 Hornet is a centerfire round with almost double the powder space and is usually loaded 25,000 psi and up for MV in excess of 2000 fps..

    About WW2 Allyn Tedmon was lobbying for a "high-speed" .25 Stevens. (1400 fps or so) but nothing came of it. It would have been very unsafe in your typical Crackshot or Favorite, is probably the reason. Today we can do it, with the reservation that it be used only in strong actions like the Model 44 or the Model 83. And I will, once I'm back on my feet.
    Last edited by uscra112; 12-23-2021 at 06:12 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you, uscra112. I was hoping for just such a development as a high-speed Stevens in center fire, but a number of older, weaker actions have been converted to center fire, so any newer higher pressure round would need a longer case for safety's sake, as is the custom for the magnum pistol rounds. There was a thread on this site where someone was working on reviving the .25 Stevens as a CF, complete with pressure data and cartridge drawings. Can't remember where, though.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    One way to ensure that high-speed loads aren't used in weak boys' rifles is to build them in converted .17WSM cases. They are so thick and hard that only full-size rifles like the Stevens 44 and 83 models will fire them. But the process is very labor-intensive. I've got about 20 loaded to a theoretical 1400 fps, and another 70 ready to load, and they will all be fired in my Stevens 83, a rare bolt-action from about 1938. It's so much trouble to make them that I won't make anymore. I have a kit to reprime them if it comes to that.

    My .25 Stevens 44 now has a centerfire breechblock; I will try high speed loads in it, too. Have about 40 converted Hornet cases ready.

    Waiting for Spring (and for my back surgery to heal up) before I do any serious testing.

    The only .25 RF boys' rifle that's easy to convert to CF is the Hopkins & Allen Junior (or 925). It's a true falling block, and I think it could handle a 1400 fps load, but no more. Favorites won't, but they're more difficult to convert, which in this case is a plus. A #4 rolling block might be safe, but it's another difficult conversion. I can't think of any other boys' rifle that I would have confidence in.
    Cognitive Dissident

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Here is the gadget I made for annealing. No media inside the shell, but rather it is stood up in a little cup of cold water and rotated at about 45 RPM to get uniform heating. Doing both would be even better.
    This is so cool! Can you provide a parts list and source so we can build them?

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    A Marksman #12 might be able to handle the conversion, lockup-wise, although that stingy little extractor and the mainspring might give trouble. A variant handled the .44 Game Getter cartridges, IIRC.

    I’ve never seen a H&A/M&H falling-block in .25 Stevens. Always been .22 and .32 rimfires, with one centerfire in .32 WCF and the Scheutzen model in books in .25-20 Single Shot. I do recall a lengthy thread on the old Shooter’s site where somebody fitted a 922 action with somebody’s .25 caliber barrel and chambered it in .25 Auto. The thread ended rather abruptly after the guy increased the headspace past the danger level with ten shots or so. Apparently, the hardening of the parts on those is not well done.

    I recall in “whatever became of” gun mag articles that the cartridge was judged as “no longer needed” after the advent of the .22 RF Magnum. The number of hunters head-shooting squirrels and grouse off tree limbs at 40 yard distances is apparently no longer judged to be a sufficient market for Big Ammo to bother with. Alas.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    H&A Junior receivers were malleable iron, just like all of the Stevens brood. Case hardened to resist surface wear, but that does nothing for the overall tensile strength, which is about that of a very mild steel. The SAAMI limit for .25ACP is ~18,000 psi. A "high velocity" .25 Stevens would be about 1400 fps, and assuming a 65 grain plain base bullet need not exceed ~12,500 psi. (QL calculation)

    I've never seen a Junior in .25 Stevens in the flesh either, but they did catalog them as a "925' model.

    The .25 was right when it was invented, i.e. during the black powder era. BP .22's were pretty wimpy, the .22 barrels fouled fast and were hard to clean, and the .25 had the added advantage of being internally lubed. Smokeless in the .22, (and the invention of hard wax lube), made it obsolete. It was never feasible to up the .25's performance because of all the weak rifles and pistols around.

    The Marksman has the wimpiest hammer blow of any boys' rifle I've ever fooled with. Barely even marks the .17 WSM rims. I think it will handle 12,000psi OK, the thrust calculation isn't much more than the .32 RF. I've created a centerfire .25 Stevens "Marksman" by mating the front end of a Model 12 to a Model 101 receiver. No more than function-fired as yet, (see post #27). Won't spend much time on it anyway, the .25 barrel I have only rates a "fair".
    Cognitive Dissident

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrassMagnet View Post
    This is so cool! Can you provide a parts list and source so we can build them?
    Not much to it. The gearmotor is one of dozens to choose from on Amazon

    https://www.amazon.com/BEMONOC-Rever...670252&sr=8-11

    The rest is a 4" electrical junction box and cover from the hardware store, , some wire, and a battery from my RC hobby.

    I made the cup from aluminum bar stock on the lathe. I.D. is 1/2 inch, so it'll take anything up to the common .30-06 base diameter. To make it watertight, after assembly I drizzled some thin polyurethane into it and let it harden.
    Cognitive Dissident

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check