Unique will blow up your gun much easier than 296 will.
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Unique will blow up your gun much easier than 296 will.
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Just keep in mind some firearm/cartridge max. pressure limits are well below the levels that any of the normal pressure indicators start showing warn signs. The 45 Colt in some 1873's is a good example.
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No meet to melt a soft lead ball as long as it is not extremely oversized.
I think the Lyman manual — if that is what the reload data page was from — has a very well written section on pressure signs.
I am with a couple of the previous posts: it is probably you more than the loads that is causing the accuracy issues, plated bullets have never been the most accurate choice for me—I like traditional cast and wax for accuracy, and a lighter load is usually more accurate than a heavy load.
As an aside: I ran a test of 357 load combinations and their accuracy. It consisted of Max Loads of Red Dot, H4227, and W296. Each of the powders max out at different velocities. When pushing each powder to its limit, the slower powder always had the best accuracy (w296). All three of the powders perform well at less than max loads, but the faster powder performed most accurately with the respective starting loads.
With Unique, I am guessing you just want to stay in the middle 1/3rd of the data, as a starting point. Then jump up towards the max but not all the way up, you just have to take an educated guess, based on your results.
Let the young pups shoot their max loads. When they become the old dog sitting on the porch they will be down to the minimum amount of powder to get the round to the target and punch through the paper.
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go up in 1/2gn amounts till you get the most accurate load with that particular boolit and powder combination not necessarily the max load listed
This is the route I plan to go going forward. I honestly didn't know this was a thing. I thought the "work your way up" was strictly for safety reasons. (not saying that isn't a good reason)Originally Posted by robg
The problem with something arbitrary like 1/2 grain is granularity.
In a rifle load, like a 308 with N550, where the book says 43.5-48.5 that's a good ladder. But in pistols, like 9mm with Titegroup, where the book says 3.2-3.8, a half-grain is too big of a jump.
So scale it to the load. In Titegroup for 9mm, I did 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 and found a load I liked. In 308 with N550 I did 44.0, 44.5, 45.0, 45.5, 46.0 and found a load I liked.
Basically, my approach is to cut it into 5 groups, always backing off from the top, and backing off of the bottom as needed. That gives you a good rough picture of where you want the load to be. Then take the best group and, if there's room, cut that into 5 more granular groups, and get closer to the exact best load for that gun.
The goal is to tune the load to the particular barrel. Then, after you've done that for several different guns, you can find commonalities, like this 9mm likes 3.4 and all my others like 3.5, so I'll load to 3.5 for all of them, knowing I could eke out a tiny bit more precision if I wanted, but it's close enough for plinking ammo.
And do all your tests from a bench with a good rest.
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Do you have a electric powder scale to check the Lee powder dispenser setting and its ability to stay at the desired charge? Those Lee powder dispensers are the bottom end of powder measures. If you are using it to measure max charges straight into your case eventually you are unknowingly getting more powder then you intend to get unless you can periodically check how much powder it is dispensing.
A beam scale works good and with a powder trickler is accurate and gives consistent results. Consistency plays a big role in a accurate load.
So much clarity I have gotten from the past few days. I will take this information and go forward with it! Very excited to get some loads and hit the range now. I feel like before I was really shooting in the dark.
Yes I have a frankford arsenal digital scale. I do not like beam scales.
I do want a powder trickler and also a better powder dispenser.
I started reloading and casting in 1967 with a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook , Speer and Hornady manuals . No inter net ...
I see some good advice posted ... I also see some horse pucky ... and the trouble with posted advice is who's real and who's posting horse pucky . Try and home in on guys who have been around a while ... old timers .
Try and keep things simple . A beam scale is good to have ... electronic everything needs a back up and a check. The Lee powder measure isn't as bad as everyone is telling you ... pick the powder these scales like . Unique is a good powder , Lyman 55 will dispense these flake powders .
Try not to over complicate things . ask questions , look at all the answers and see who makes sense and who is in left field .
Every one has their way of doing things ... not right not wrong just two different ways to accomplish a goal . I know all this is confusing , but hang in there you have a great resource here and we can help . I'm terribly old school , single station press , use powder dippers a lot , simple methods and simple ways of doing things . I've tried a lot of ways and this is my way .
My powder trickler is a 30-06 case filled with powder and rolled between thum & forefinger over powder pan ...cost $0.00
Gary
Certified Cajun
Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
" Let's Go Brandon !"
Hey gwpercle do you make custom dippers?
I stopped using these once I got the perfect powder measure, I don't even wanna admit...
to knowing how many pounds of h110 and ww296, measured exactly correct, once I figured out the secret technique to the 1.3 CC scooper...
I think I used them so much, they polished smooth!
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That is awesome! Gave me a good chuckle. However I watched enough of duelist1954's videos to have seen this used before. I'd never get rid of those if I were you. So tomorrow I will make a thread of the list of parts I've purchased this week alone on this journey and why. You guys can critique my decisions and tell me what else I should do. I want to be shooting cloverleafs by August out of this GP100!!!!!Hey gwpercle do you make custom dippers?
I stopped using these once I got the perfect powder measure, I don't even wanna admit...
to knowing how many pounds of h110 and ww296, measured exactly correct, once I figured out the secret technique to the 1.3 CC scooper...
I think I used them so much, they polished smooth!
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And if you don't have one already, start a load book. I use a 3 ring binder and print out a sheet for each load. Write in all the pertinent info for the load, including any notes if I have to do something unusual. Then, when I go test them at the range I mark my targets so I know which is which, so when I get home I can cut them out and tape them into the book.
Below is a load sheet I did a while back for a new 30-30 lever action. Everything the same but a ladder from 7.0-8.5 Unique in .5gr steps. I'll write in velocity readings if I take them. (the first load didn't read right)
Then you have a record you can refer back to later. When you ask yourself "How was I getting such good groups last year, and this year they suck?" Go look in your book. If nothing else, it's a place to start, to narrow down a problem or get started with a new gun. Keep you "known good" loads at the front, and let the missteps fall to the back, but later you can retrace your steps in the book to help you know where to go next.
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Cloverleafs are easy....just keep moving the target closer.....and shoot three shot groups.
BTW, the best custom tuned pistols I have seen cannot do better than 2 1/2” groups at 50 yards out of a Ransom rest. If you can put 5 shots into 2” at 25 yards, you are doing very well. Keep your expectations realistic.
Don Verna
Interesting, someone ought to tell Les Bear to quit selling 1911's with a 1 1/2" garantee. Same goes for the Marvel Precision unit 1 I ran for years. Another nm 1911 this time chambered in 9mm that managed to do under 2 1/2" groups @ 50yds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvm3pxZr6Iw
Have no idea why you'd bring up pistol accuracy or are struggling to get less than 2 1/2" groups with a mechanical rest @ 50yds. Perhaps you might check and see if everything is bolted down tight??? The op has an excellent revolver (not a pistol) that should easily do +/- 2" @ 50yds when he gets everything dialed in.
Heck playing around with a box/stock s&w 686 competitor @ 50yds. And these are 6-shot groups (not 3-shot) test 5.5gr & 6.0gr loads using 2 different bullets. All 4 groups are under 2 1/2".
+/- 2" 6-shot groups are very doable with a revolver @ 50yds & that gp-100 should have no trouble doing so.
Most folks have touched on the variations in guns. If you notice at the beginning of a particular cartridge, they list the firearm they used but also the list of components. Components vary enough that the start low and work up is mandatory. Tom Armbrust has a page about pressure variations between primers in shotshells. I started to load some Lake City 7.62 Nato brass. The starting load was at the neck shoulder junction. 4 other manuals had higher starting loads with the same powder. Didn't take long to figure that wouldn't work.
The idea to subtract the starting load from max and dividing by 5 is a good one. You may want to take that last incremental increase and divide it in half as you approach max.
I shot a bunch of handgun silhouette. It isn't a bunch of fun being beside someone slinging hot gas, powder and bullet bits out the cylinder/barrel gap. And the more you do it, the shorter the life of the gun.
My good friend and shooting partner couldn't find brass for his TC Contender when it was approved for hunter pistol. I asked if he was going to pull the bullets and reload some factory ammo he'd found. No, he'd shoot them and they would be fireformed to his chamber. I didn't shoot that relay so I could watch and enjoy. Factory ammo was loaded with IMR4227 and in a 10" contender barrel the fireball was as big as a basketball. I laughed every time he pulled the trigger. His brass was fireformed but it took him 6 months to get over the flinch he developed that day. That fireball looked like the ones you see in a comic book and it was the middle of the day during the summer. We couldn't convince him to do any when it got dark.
Where can I get the 101 on pressure signs and knowing when I am getting into dangerous territory.
Also how do companies like Buffalo Bore make 357 loads that go 1700fps out of a revolver while keeping it safe? You won't find those load suggestions in any book, so how do they do it safely?
Max. loads with Unique in .357 will quickly erode the rear face of the barrel and forcing cone, as well as flame cutting of your top strap and possibly gas cutting the front face of the cylinder. I would not exceed 6.5 grains of Unique with a 158-grain cast bullet for about 1050 fps if you want the gun to last. If you really need higher velocity, then you should select a slower, cooler-burning powder and stick to the powder manufacturer's data.
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