Trap Loads

[farmbif]

ive grown to like the federal wads for straight wall, use a lot of 12s3 and 12s4. there are clones of these but I always stock up on the real ones when they are available.
there are also quite a few options out there. ballistic products is a great resource for everything shotshell.
for target, skeet trap using Winchester AA and Remington nitro 27 hulls ive used a lot of figure 8 and wAA12 wads. these newer Remington hulls that a smooth rather than ribbed are pretty durable and can be reloaded a bunch of times before splitting
ive probably got at least 20 or so different wads in 12 and 20 gauge so I can put together target or hunting loads no matter what kind of hulls I can come across.

[Texas by God]

I need to get back to loading shotgun shells. I have a 12 gauge Mec 600, I just need some Red Dot and shot. I'd also like a Load All for .410 if they made them. I've never loaded 20 gauge even though it's the most used gauge here- I stocked up heavily on " Dove&Quail" loads decades ago and still have a bunch.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[richhodg66]

"never loaded 20 gauge even though it's the most used gauge here"

I shot exclusively for almost a year with a 16 and a 12 just feels like a cannon anymore, but there is a definite advantage to the bigger gauge.

I got a MEC 650 in 20 gauge from an antique shop in Andover a while back for fifty bucks. The 20 is a bit more miserly of components as well. Somewhere around here I have an H&R 20 gauge with a rifled barrel, so I need to get back to that round ball project.

[rking22]

There is a definite advantage to a M12 over the SxS
Can’t see any reason to throw more than 7/8 oz of shot at a 16 yard target. That is the mandated load for bunker and the targets are much faster and more difficult. Handicap yardages towards the back then filling the pattern more densely is worth the recoil, but a 1 1/8 oz full choke pattern is the same size as a full choke 7/8 or 1 oz pattern, just more dense. Makes the target deader. Most missed targets are shooter error and a golden bb dosent help that. Recoil is fatiguing, there is a cost to that fatigue.

[dverna]

There is a definite advantage to a M12 over the SxS
Can’t see any reason to throw more than 7/8 oz of shot at a 16 yard target. That is the mandated load for bunker and the targets are much faster and more difficult. Handicap yardages towards the back then filling the pattern more densely is worth the recoil, but a 1 1/8 oz full choke pattern is the same size as a full choke 7/8 or 1 oz pattern, just more dense. Makes the target deader. Most missed targets are shooter error and a golden bb dosent help that. Recoil is fatiguing, there is a cost to that fatigue.

You, and most others, would benefit from reading this:

Sporting Shotgun Performance: Measurement, Analysis, Optimisation
Book by Andrew C. Jones

It is sad to see advice based on opinions.

The good news....for trap shooters breaking 90 birds out of 100. Those 7/8 Oz loads are saving you money...lol.

IIRC, Dr Jones showed even with a perfect shot, with less than 1 1/8 Oz of shot, an element of luck is required to shoot a perfect score due to random holes in the pattern. BTW, you can prove that by patterning your load, to see the holes in the pattern. When you do this, bear in mind the clay does not present a circular target, so tilt ge bird and check for misses. Take 10 shots...paper is cheap.

One other factor. One pellet will not always break the bird. All this stuff does not matter if you are shooting for fun. It does not matter if you break 22 or 23 out of 25. Serious shooters need a load that can break 200/200.

[richhodg66]

I really doubt I'll ever get serious enough about it to worry that much about loads. The Model 12 I'm using is so heavy that recoil isn't really a problem.

Experimenting around with different handloads is fun, though, and I'm learning a lot. The cost of shot is going to be a problem, I had some I accumulated, but found a guy advertising on Craigslist who makes it selling for about half what I could find it for. He was close enough to where I was going once anyway, that it was worth my time to drive over and meet him. Hopefully he keeps it up, because the stuff will go quick.

Went out with #1 son and each shot two rounds last night. I just used an 870 in 16 gauge I picked up and hadn't shot yet, didn't do terribly, but not as well as usual. We shot with an older guy and his grandson, the old man was shooting a Ljutic and didn't miss a one. Likely been an avid trap shooter for decades.

It really is a lot of fun, but I really don't want any shooting to get so competitive that it becomes like work.

[dverna]

rich,

At many state ATA shoots there are vendors selling stuff at reasonable prices. I would buy all my shot, wads, powder and primers at either the Michigan or Ohio state shoots or the Regional Grand held in MI. One vendor was selling reclaimed shot for a decent discount. Many guys used it and it seems to work fine.

I did not buy any as I would not risk possible damage to the barrels (my K-80 was worth over $15k) and I was shooting over 15k rounds a year. For the recreational shooter, I think reclaimed shot is never going to make much difference. It is typically a mix of 7 1/2's and 8's.

Look up the ATA web site, and see how far you are from your state shoot. I believe vendors attend the large skeet shoots as well and that is another source for components. Prices are normally good at these events. I have never seen 16 ga wads but they sold stuff for the other gauges. Also, DownRange wads are good if you can find them.

[rking22]

You, and most others, would benefit from reading this:

Sporting Shotgun Performance: Measurement, Analysis, Optimisation
Book by Andrew C. Jones

It is sad to see advice based on opinions.

The good news....for trap shooters breaking 90 birds out of 100. Those 7/8 Oz loads are saving you money...lol.

IIRC, Dr Jones showed even with a perfect shot, with less than 1 1/8 Oz of shot, an element of luck is required to shoot a perfect score due to random holes in the pattern. BTW, you can prove that by patterning your load, to see the holes in the pattern. When you do this, bear in mind the clay does not present a circular target, so tilt ge bird and check for misses. Take 10 shots...paper is cheap.

One other factor. One pellet will not always break the bird. All this stuff does not matter if you are shooting for fun. It does not matter if you break 22 or 23 out of 25. Serious shooters need a load that can break 200/200.

Not based on opinion, nor reading a book or shooting paper, it’s based on shooting 1000s of those international loads at bunker and 16 yard trap as well as watching more thousands of them shot. When a target dosent break, I did something wrong. Generally breaking my focus on the bird early. Trap shooters are the biggest consumer of release triggers and all sort of other stuff to help with their flinch, that comes from the constant pounding of those loads. Shooting the Grand, and actually able to run that 200, sure throw that extra shot if you want. If allowed, I would use those handicap 7 1/2s on the second barrel on the bunker, needed at the distance for pattern density, but I’d stay at 7/8 on the first shot. Learning and training, shoot a tight choke and loads that are notably more cost effective and less tiring to shoot. Here’s more unpopular trap thoughts, 8 and 8 1/2 break 16 yard targets reliably, and give a very dense pattern, compare 1 1/8 oz pellet count of 7 1/2 to 7/8 oz of 8 1/2 of 8s. We shall agree to disagree.

[dverna]

rking

I have walked the walk.

Between 2010 and 2013 I averaged 97.39 on 8300 registered Singles targets. With HC and Doubles, another 17,900 registered targets. Total of over 26k competition target in four years. You can verify the numbers on the ATA website as my name is Donald Verna so easy to look up. Plus over 40k practice targets during those four years.

Health and family issues have kept me from competing but I still shoot for fun.

We can agree to disagree...but I doubt you can school me on trap shooting or load selection.

BTW you are incorrect about the main reason for a release trigger. I shoot double release and flinching from recoil is not the reason most people use them.

[rking22]

That’s good shooting, but my point is how many targets have you shot with the 1 oz and under loads? Designed experiment to actually test the concept. Consistently breaking 98/100 targets with the chosen load does not prove that a different load will cost you targets, only that the load you shoot achieves that percentage. I am pointing out that, for someone learning the game, the additional 2 to 4 boxes of loads from a bag of shot is worth more than worrying about the possibility of a fringed target not getting chipped. The cumulative effect of recoil is worth considering as well. I would not be continuing this discussion except for others reading this in the future. I see too many small of frame people being coerced into shooting loads that have more detriment than benefit. Actually try the loads over a significant stretch of scored targets and decide then, with all the facts. Most missed targets are owned by the human behind the trigger. No intention to be argumentative, I do not intend it that way.

On the release, all I know is what folk shooting them tell me. I shoot too many varied vintage guns to be interested in one.

[15meter]

The wads getting stuck was me not being vigilant about keeping the hopper full enough and developing a process to make sure the hulls were getting chargedfully. After I figured that out, they all worked perfectly. The load in my Lyman manual called for this wad and Federal hulls, so couldn't be that bad, but I'll switch to some Winchester AAs to use up that bag of wads.

Agreed on 700X. I got a lot of it from my Dad a few years ago, probably six pounds and then another unopened canister of about that same size. Been using it in all kinds of things from .38 Special up to light bullet 100 yard loads in .45-70 and it is good stuff, almost as versatile as Unique, and my Lyman 3rd Edition Cast Handbook seems to have data for it in just about everything. I love the stuff.

I'm surprised that was a listed load, never had good luck with AA wads in Federal hulls or vice versa. When I stuck to the correct wad style for the hull they seemed to shoot considerably better.

If it works for you go for it!

Waste not want not.

[MrWolf]

rking

I have walked the walk.

Between 2010 and 2013 I averaged 97.39 on 8300 registered Singles targets. With HC and Doubles, another 17,900 registered targets. Total of over 26k competition target in four years. You can verify the numbers on the ATA website as my name is Donald Verna so easy to look up. Plus over 40k practice targets during those four years.

Health and family issues have kept me from competing but I still shoot for fun.

We can agree to disagree...but I doubt you can school me on trap shooting or load selection.

BTW you are incorrect about the main reason for a release trigger. I shoot double release and flinching from recoil is not the reason most people use them.

Very nice. You made me go back and look. Only really shot 2011 & 2012 but I also preferred the 1 1/8 loads of 7 1/2. It really comes down to a personal preference. My back was bad back then but wanted to shoot with my son. Proper technique really helps to absorb the pounding so I really wouldn't worry about it. According to ATA, I shot almost 4,450 of singles at over 94%, 3,100 handicap at over 86%, and 3,200 of doubles at about 84%. Not as good as you guys but decent for someone only shooting a few years. You really do need to practice and I really did notice a improvement once I started reloading to our shooting style. Have fun with it. I wish I could still shoot trap, especially with my son. Best of luck.
Ron

[richhodg66]

Been giving this quite a bit of thought lately. I went to the range and shot two rounds with the Model 12, hit 18 first round and 21 the second which is a pretty good round for me. I used that same load with the Federal hulls and Winchester wads.

Something that I've noticed which may just be my imagination or wishful thinking, my handloads seem to break clay birds more decisively than the cheap 100 packs stuff I had been using. Not sure why, but I never patterned the cheap shells or my handloads yet.

The discussion here about 7/8 ounce loads verses 1 1/8 ounce loads. I can certainly see the argument that it's better to shoot more and have less recoil, but also I'm sure them more shot makes a difference. So far, recoil is not a problem with this gun, but I am also not a good enough shooter to tell. I know after two or three rounds, I don't feel beat up. Never shot doubles on trap, so no frame of reference.

So payload matters, does velocity? Would a higher velocity load make a difference either in terms of hitting more or breaking them more surely when you do hit them? Also, 7 1/2, 8 or 9 shot, any advantage to any of them? I have a lot of 7 1/2 so that's what I've been using.

Those Federal top gun hulls crimp real nicely for me and seem to load easily on the Load All. It's also nice that I can pick up 100 or more once fired ones every trip to the range. I'm gonna order Claybuster 12S0 and 12S3 clones, but in the meantime want to use up the Winchester wads I have, so I went through the bin today and grabbed some of the new AA hulls, quite a few of the green Remington Gun Club hulls, which I am told are very good, and some of the gold colored Remington hulls (Nitro?). Which of these would you guys recommend for these tapered style wads?

This is a lot of fun. I kind of thought shot shell reloading wasn't going to interest me like metallic cartridge stuff.

[Hogtamer]

If shooting skeet use the 9's. 8's then 7 1/2s for the longer shots. And yes, higher velocity will keep the pattern tighter, within reason. A 1oz load at 1300fps is a hammer.

[Budzilla 19]

New style AA hulls, Remington Premier, the green ones or Nitro 27 hulls are all good for reloading!
I have loaded , literally, thousands of them!! Gave it up for a while, might get back in when the stupid stuff slows down a little! Skeet and trap, I shoot them both! Good luck to ya

[dverna]

Been giving this quite a bit of thought lately. I went to the range and shot two rounds with the Model 12, hit 18 first round and 21 the second which is a pretty good round for me. I used that same load with the Federal hulls and Winchester wads.

Something that I've noticed which may just be my imagination or wishful thinking, my handloads seem to break clay birds more decisively than the cheap 100 packs stuff I had been using. Not sure why, but I never patterned the cheap shells or my handloads yet.

The discussion here about 7/8 ounce loads verses 1 1/8 ounce loads. I can certainly see the argument that it's better to shoot more and have less recoil, but also I'm sure them more shot makes a difference. So far, recoil is not a problem with this gun, but I am also not a good enough shooter to tell. I know after two or three rounds, I don't feel beat up. Never shot doubles on trap, so no frame of reference.

So payload matters, does velocity? Would a higher velocity load make a difference either in terms of hitting more or breaking them more surely when you do hit them? Also, 7 1/2, 8 or 9 shot, any advantage to any of them? I have a lot of 7 1/2 so that's what I've been using.

Those Federal top gun hulls crimp real nicely for me and seem to load easily on the Load All. It's also nice that I can pick up 100 or more once fired ones every trip to the range. I'm gonna order Claybuster 12S0 and 12S3 clones, but in the meantime want to use up the Winchester wads I have, so I went through the bin today and grabbed some of the new AA hulls, quite a few of the green Remington Gun Club hulls, which I am told are very good, and some of the gold colored Remington hulls (Nitro?). Which of these would you guys recommend for these tapered style wads?

This is a lot of fun. I kind of thought shot shell reloading wasn't going to interest me like metallic cartridge stuff.

I use 1 1/8 Oz of #8’s at about 1145 fps for competition and 1 Oz of 8’s at 1145 for practice. I will break about 1-2 birds less out of 100 with the light load.

Velocity is not going to help much. You will be breaking birds at about 32 yards when shooting from the 16 yard line. The faster pellets lose velocity faster and at the range you are hitting birds there is little gain. If you want more energy, go to 7 1/2’s....they carry better than 8’s.

As to hulls, the STS hulls are the best 12 ga hull. There is no difference between the green or gold hulls when loading.

I used a lot of the Top Gun and Estate Federal hulls for shooting doubles. I would reload them once and pitch them. Do not try to get a lot of reloads out of them. The older ones I used had a paper base that erodes with every shot....I think the newer hulls may have plastic so check that out. When I dumpster dove for the old Top Gun hulls I would let them sit for a month to make sure there was no moisture in the base wad,

[richhodg66]

Looking in these, it appears to be plastic. I've been meaning to cut a few hulls apart, mainly to satisfy my curiosity, to see exactly what they're all like. These Federal Top Guns are so plentiful at this range, I don't see a need to load them very many times. Once I figure out the load I'll standardize on, which will probably involve these and 700X, I'll probably load up a bunch of them on a rainy day.

[megasupermagnum]

There have been 3 variations of the Top Gun. #1 was a traditional Federal fiber basewad, and they used that for a number of years. These took an American sized 209 Primer. #2 was made by Rio for Federal, had a plastic basewad, and took a European size 209 primer. They only made these 2 maybe 3 years as best I can tell. #3 they started around 2018-2019 and continues today, and that is a plastic basewad, except made by Federal, and fits an American sized 209. I love these hulls, and took home a 55 gallon drum of them. They have just about the same internal volume as the Federal Gold Medal, and I recommend you load these with gold medal data. They last a similar life to a gold medal hull. Really the only drawback to them is their head's are steel, but the gold medals are steel too now.

These are definitely worth reloading, every bit as good as the other "free" American primer size hull, the Remington gun club. I'd take either over a new AA.

[6pt-sika]

I keep four CB wads on my shelf for the 12 gauge . Copies of the WAA12 and WAA12SL as well as the CB AA wads for 7/8 and 3/4 ounce loads . I’m finding if I use the 3/4 ounce load with 7/8 ounce of shot it makes a cream puff skeet and 16 yard trap load . Also does pretty fair at 5 stand . I push it mostly with American Select but Promo/Red Dot can be applied as well .

[6pt-sika]

As to hulls I’ve got several thousand REM STS , several thousand old AA’s , a couple thousand old Peters Blue Magic and a few thousand new AA’s . Some folks differentiate or segregate them , I load them all the same and never had or noticed a problem . Matter of fact I have two flats of old AA factory loads with #8’s and two flats of STS factory #8’s I probably oughtta shoot and add the hulls to my pile . Have a flat of STS Nitro HNDCP 7 1/2 1 ounce loads I might use for the first shot at a pigeon match in august and some factory Flyer 7 1/2 - 1 1/4 in the second barrel . Fifteen bird match but two shots required per bird regardless of whether you kill it with the first shot or not .