Which mold would you go with for classic Keith SWC in 357 and 44?

[Dom]

I shoot both these bullets in my 44 hand gun & rifle, Win 94 AE. They shoot great out of either . You will notice the bullet on left ( Arsenal 250gr PB ) has the square lube grove . I also have this same bullet in Lyman 250gr round lube grove PB. If it makes a difference I sure can't tell it & now that I PC all my cast bullets , absolutely make no difference. Either works great..The 265gr GC ( Saeco ) RFP also a very accurate bullet out of any of my 44's. I can't see any real difference in performance.Attachment 285937

[ryanmattes]

Yeah, likely the only difference you'll see is the SWC makes a /slightly/ neater hole in the paper. Good cast out of a good mold is good cast out of a good mold.

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[megasupermagnum]

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...lid-6-cav-alu/

If you put in your email he will notify you when he does a run. I just got one that way.

Plane base boolits are fine for pistol speeds.

HA!

I wouldn't waste your time with MP molds. The guy loves what he does, but is EXTRMELY slow at it. The molds are good from what I hear, but no better than NOE or Arsenal, and I'd argue Accurate is better. I've been in line for a mold from MP countless times, and he loves to string you along with "I'm just waiting for X part, should be here in 2 weeks." Then 2 MONTHS later someone has to kick him up, and again he is still waiting.

The final straw for me was when I was trying to do a group buy on a clone of a shotgun slug, and I took the time to draw exactly what the dimensions were. He comes back with a modified version, and says take it or leave it. So I put my name on the list anyway. That was 2019, and we are still "waiting on parts". I mean, the guy is a machinist for goodness sakes. Either figure it out, or get out of the business.

[Bigslug]

I think lube groove configuration and especially lube capacity is probably of VERY minimal concern with handgun munitions, given the success many of us have with tumble lubing. If nothing else, a rounded groove may fall out of the mold easier.

Where the Lyman molds seem to more critically depart from original spec is that they narrow the front driving band - presumably for easier function in a wider range of guns. Keith's main design criteria was to have three equal length, full diameter bands. Many complain of newer Lymans casting small. Given these issues and that you can buy from NOE, Accurate, M&P, etc... most of us have moved on from that brand.

If you haven't already learned, the classic Keith .358 SWC was the 358429, and it was concocted for heavy loads in .38 Special cases. It's nose will be too long for many revolvers with traditional seating to the crimp groove in longer .357 cases. That requires crimping over the front driving band to get the length usable. Others have probably done the hard science on this, but to my way of thinking, that bullet might as well stay in a .38 case, since this deep-seat approach takes away the extra 1/10" of powder capacity the .357 case grants you.

[QuackAttack24]

I have the 429421 255gr Keith mold from arsenal. It's a very nice mold and casts beautiful bullets, but be sure to check the dimensions in the diagram. It's designed with driving bands that are .434 in diameter. If you need your bullets to cast at .431 or .432 you need to contact him to special order. I found that out the hard way. Mine are dropping at .435 with range scrap, and .436 with Linotype, so I have to size them down just to tumble or pan lube them. If I powder coat them as cast, they size out at .438. That's a tight squeeze through my .432 sizing die, so I didn't powder coat them like I do with all of my pistol bullets. I am going to try a couple to see if they will fit through the sizing die without deforming them too bad, but I'd rather have them dropping at .431-.432.

I also have his 358429 170 gr Keith mold. I thought I was getting a .358 mold, but it is designed to drop at .360. Again having to size down more than I would like. They are dropping at .361 with range scrap and .362 with linotype.

I'm not the only one who's made this mistake. I've talked with another member on this forum who also didn't notice the diagram, and is getting bullets dropping larger than he would like. I think his molds are very reasonably priced for the quality, but check the diagram before you buy so you get the size you want.

[megasupermagnum]

I have the 429421 255gr Keith mold from arsenal. It's a very nice mold and casts beautiful bullets, but be sure to check the dimensions in the diagram. It's designed with driving bands that are .434 in diameter. If you need your bullets to cast at .431 or .432 you need to contact him to special order. I found that out the hard way. Mine are dropping at .435 with range scrap, and .436 with Linotype, so I have to size them down just to tumble or pan lube them. If I powder coat them as cast, they size out at .438. That's a tight squeeze through my .432 sizing die, so I didn't powder coat them like I do with all of my pistol bullets. I am going to try a couple to see if they will fit through the sizing die without deforming them too bad, but I'd rather have them dropping at .431-.432.

I also have his 358429 170 gr Keith mold. I thought I was getting a .358 mold, but it is designed to drop at .360. Again having to size down more than I would like. They are dropping at .361 with range scrap and .362 with linotype.

I'm not the only one who's made this mistake. I've talked with another member on this forum who also didn't notice the diagram, and is getting bullets dropping larger than he would like. I think his molds are very reasonably priced for the quality, but check the diagram before you buy so you get the size you want.

I'm not sure what drawing that is, but Arsenal molds shows .432" right on the website. You must have bought the wrong one.http://arsenalmolds.com/products?pro...=138&limit=100

Maybe powder coating is different, but most of us are extremely glad that these custom makers are making molds that drop bullets big. Sizing down .003" is no big deal. My NOE's drop around .361" and .433". As I said, I size to .358" and .431", and I can barely feel that. They size super easy. On the flip side, I've had molds, mostly Lyman, that drop exactly, or slightly smaller than I want, and it is a nightmare. Beagling works, but it isn't great.

@Bigslug, I'll confirm that a Keith bullet crimped in the crimp groove fits in a GP100 without a problem. As far as I know, the only common 357 magnum that it won't fit in, is an N frame Smith. I'm unsure of the J frame. It should fit in a Ruger LCR, but it would be close.

[QuackAttack24]

I'm not sure what drawing that is, but Arsenal molds shows .432" right on the website. You must have bought the wrong one.

I beg to differ. The link you posted is not the Keith model. The Keith model is 429421. When I emailed Jared to find out why the Keith molds were dropping so large, he sent me the exact diagram I posted, which is 429421. The 358429 170 gr. Keith drawing is also posted and it clearly shows .360.

I agree it's not the end of the world, but I don't really want to size down from .438 to .432 after powder coating. The harder the alloy, the rougher it is to push the bullet through the sizing die.

[fredj338]

Do you guys bother with gas check for these 357 and 44 loads? I plan to powder coat them if that matters (I know it is a thin layer of lubricant and not a protectant coating)

Me, no. I have removed gc from several of my molds. At handgun vel, I dont think it is really needed unless you want to cast very soft alloy that will likely lead.
I like the Accurate molds, but my Keith style are either RCBS or an older Lyman.

[slohunter]

My older Lyman 429421 poly coated at .432

[JAC43]

I beg to differ. When I emailed Jared to find out why the Keith molds were dropping so large, he sent me the exact diagram I posted. Says very clearly .434 on the drawing.

You are going back and forth about two different molds. Arsenal's 429421 is drawn at .434" vs the H&G #503 at .432".

[QuackAttack24]

You are going back and forth about two different molds. Arsenal's 429421 is drawn at .434" vs the H&G #503 at .432".

Exactly

[Dom]

My Arsenal mold 429421 drops it's bullets at .436 to .437 in the mold I have, cast fro scrap WW BH 10.5 to 11. Then I have to size before I PC. Then have to size again. My sizer is .430. I end up with a bullet I can shoot, but the crimp grove has now become a narrow slit from all the down sizing. The driving bands have also become noticeably wider. My old Lyman similar style drops it's bullet at .431 using the exact same alloy & shoots great. For all those who like a mold that drops a larger bullet I will sell mine for $55 shipped to you & it is is perfect shape.

[downzero]

I beg to differ. The link you posted is not the Keith model. The Keith model is 429421. When I emailed Jared to find out why the Keith molds were dropping so large, he sent me the exact diagram I posted, which is 429421. The 358429 170 gr. Keith drawing is also posted and it clearly shows .360.

I agree it's not the end of the world, but I don't really want to size down from .438 to .432 after powder coating. The harder the alloy, the rougher it is to push the bullet through the sizing die.

There is no reason for hard alloys when powdercoating, and I agree with posters that I would rather have every bullet slightly oversized. Your complaint is unique to you--the rest of us want oversized bullets so we can size to the diameter we want. If they cast too small, that can't happen.

[QuackAttack24]

I would rather have every bullet slightly oversized.

Me too.

[Dom]

Me too.

Me too.

[Stopsign32v]

There is no reason for hard alloys when powdercoating, and I agree with posters that I would rather have every bullet slightly oversized. Your complaint is unique to you--the rest of us want oversized bullets so we can size to the diameter we want. If they cast too small, that can't happen.

Why do you say hard alloys aren't needed when powdercoating?

[QuackAttack24]

Why do you say hard alloys aren't needed when powdercoating?

I kind of wondered the same thing. Some of these Keith bullets are being shot from a Henry Rifle at 1600-1700 ft/s. These are not gas checked bullets. I try to get those at BHN of 20-22. Sizing down a powder coated bullet that hard from .438 to .432 requires some pressure on the handle, sometimes more than my table can handle.

[358429]

My favorite bullets in 357 magnum and 38 special.

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[Stopsign32v]

My favorite bullets in 357 magnum and 38 special.

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Oh man I like the looks of those. Which mold is this?

[358429]

Oh man I like the looks of those. Which mold is this?

Mp molds. The flat nose Keith bullet is an aluminum 8-cavity mold. The hollow points come from a four cavity brass mold, it comes with a bunch of different hollow points. These ones are the deepest, I love how they look, they also shoot surprisingly straight from a bunch of different guns.

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