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Thread: Swc versus lead hollow point

  1. #1
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    Swc versus lead hollow point

    I would like to hunt deer this fall and want to know the effectiveness of either projectile for harvesting game.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    You didn't say what caliber, weight, or MV. Even with such little information, I would probably use the hollow point if your ranges are close. In my 50 cal muzzleloader I use a sabot with a 265 gr .429 SWC for elk but on deer, it often makes "small hole in and small hole out" requiring significant blood trailing (usually in the rain around here. The foot isn't much fun) which is why I prefer PRB for deer except for longer range desert mule deer. The SWC is devastating on elk though.

  3. #3
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    Both work within their individual properties. I'm not a fan of HP, but rather a good SWC. Weight and a sharp meplat is what I prefer. They tend to track straight and give good penetration. Many factors like speed, alloy, and the grand daddy of them all, shot placement win the day.

  4. #4
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    Take a look at the "Wide Flat nose designs" also. The larger the "impact diameter" the more energy gets dumped as it plows through cutting the "leak out" canal.
    If you are going to hunt with a .41 or larger revolver type caliber use a heavy cast and bust the shoulders. No tracking !
    Or put it through the heart / lung area and enjoy the meal.
    We have large corn crunchers here thus y preference for large heavy flat nose cast.
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  5. #5
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    I will take a hollow point almost every time. The exception is a large diameter and slow velocity cartridge like 45 acp or 45 colt. You would have to walk such a fine line with your hollow point to get good hunting results with a bullet only doing 900 fps or so. Once you get into a 357 magnum, I'll take a hollow point every time on a deer. They are simply more effective. Some of my favorites are hollow point SWC's, so you don't have to choose one or the other.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy Castaway's Avatar
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    Dead is dead. You have to ask, at what point in the in the deer/elks demise did the bullet fail? Shoot what gives the best accuracy. The variables that favor one over the other are mostly academic and to try and determine which works better is more of a mental exercise than physical. Still need to make up your mind, shoot what you’ve got the most of

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Can we have an idea of which caliber & bullet weight you have in mind, rifle or pistol, & velocity you intend to use? Thanks for the post.

  8. #8
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    In my experience, 30,32, and 35 remington made from a mim. 2.25% tin and a max of 4% antimony does benefit from a shallow hollow point.(cup point not a deep hollow point) I keep impact velocity above 1500 fps. On larger calibers 44, 45 colt and 45-70 I think its a waste of time. Wide flat nose is preferred but a SWC will do the job just fine. With or without a hollow point, I want two holes. Hollow points for hunting have to be tailored to the alloy and impact speed and has a narrow window where everything works. 20:1 works in handguns at 1200 down to 1000 for me as long as my shots stay under 60 yds. otherwise I use a flat nose with the 2.25/4% alloy. On 240 to 300 grain boolits in handgun or rifle, 1200 fps muzzle velocity equals dead deer as long as it's an accurate hit to the zone.
    Tony

  9. #9
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    I'd be in the same camp as 725 and Missionary, I'll take penetration with cutting every time. I'm not a fan of hollow points/nose in anything, ever, jacketed or cast. I couldn't count the game that has fallen either in their tracks or within sight to KTSWC's or bullets from a rifle with a wide meplat. Never had to track any. I can't say the same for expanding bullets, jacketed or cast. Velocities have been from around 1000 fps to 1800 fps, within 10 ft. of the muzzle, BHN from 9 to 15.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    I have killed deer and one hog with hollow points in .44 magnum but now hunt exclusively with either Keith or Ranch Dog solids.

    The bottom line is that if you make a big hole in and a big hole out of a deer in the right place they die. I like being able to aim for the exit hole on the critter. I almost never get a bang flop with handguns. They run, usually about 50 yards, and drop. With the solid I don't have to worry about impact velocity, alloy composition, cavity shape, relative humidity, moon phase, or the price if tea in China. Just load for accuracy, pick your shot, mind your front sight, and trigger control. In other words do your job and the boolit will do it's job.
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  11. #11
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    I've never taken a head of game with a cast hollow point bullet so I won't comment on them. The wife and I have taken a number of elk with modern muzzleloaders loaded with cast semi-wadcutters, Lyman Great Plains type. They work! I used cast lead round nose in my Sharps to take a couple deer. They worked, but not as well as the semi-wadcutters. Given a choice based on my experience I'll take a semi-wadcutter with a large meplat for hunting big game.
    BIG OR SMALL I LIKE THEM ALL, 577 TO 22 HORNET.

  12. #12
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    Sorry guys and gals for not including a caliber.

    I am planning on using a 357 max, 357 mag, 44 mag

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I will take a hollow point almost every time. The exception is a large diameter and slow velocity cartridge like 45 acp or 45 colt. You would have to walk such a fine line with your hollow point to get good hunting results with a bullet only doing 900 fps or so. Once you get into a 357 magnum, I'll take a hollow point every time on a deer. They are simply more effective. Some of my favorites are hollow point SWC's, so you don't have to choose one or the other.
    ^^^^^^^^

    What megasupermagnum said.......
    Larry Gibson

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  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Never found much use for hollow points, but there is some benefit to general form and alloy hardness.

    300 grain pure lead wrapped in a bit of paper for the 77/44. MV ballpark 1,600 fps.




    80 yards, pop and flop on a deer. Does pretty much the same on hogs as well.



    YMMV

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    glen fryxell has written extensively about his practical experience of hunting with cast bullets in handguns and fortunately has unselfishly shared it with the world.

    http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbcocker View Post
    The bottom line is that if you make a big hole in and a big hole out of a deer in the right place they die. I like being able to aim for the exit hole on the critter. I almost never get a bang flop with handguns. They run, usually about 50 yards, and drop.
    Amen. A cast bullet that's hard enough for good accuracy at high velocity starts in the iffy range for hollow point expansion and then they shed velocity rapidly. So, IMHO, going to the trouble of making cast HP is hardly worth the effort.

    Getting a BANG-FLOP usually requires a central nervous system hit. I prefer heart/lung hits because it's big and it produces a fast end; NOTHING can live long without oxygen. Heart/lung hit deer drown in their own blood within a few seconds.

    I rarely have bang/flop deer but I never have to "track" anything further than 30-50 yards either. And that's a constant no matter if I'm shooting cast .357 SWC or .300 magnum with expensive 180 gr. premium jacketed bullets.

    With the solid I don't have to worry about impact velocity, alloy composition, cavity shape, relative humidity, moon phase, or the price if tea in China. Just load for accuracy, pick your shot, mind your front sight, and trigger control. In other words do your job and the boolit will do it's job.
    Exactly. But, hit a frightened deer through its guts and no bullet will stop it very soon.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    Well, you would be surprised that a rifled shotgun slug through the guts of a deer will stop it pretty quick, but that's an exception, not the rule. It's unfortunate that I even know that.

    You can get fantastic accuracy in the magnums with 20:1 alloy. It might help to choose a bullet with a gascheck, but I shoot plain base in 357 and 44 magnums just fine.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. R View Post
    Sorry guys and gals for not including a caliber.

    I am planning on using a 357 max, 357 mag, 44 mag
    IME, wfn in 357 Max and 44 is all you need. I don't know how hard you can push your 357. A 180 fn out of a Contender does a great job. The only deer I shot with an HP had a ton of bloodshot meat and fragments. It didn't go far but I saw no reason to use another. A lot depends on distances and weight of the deer.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'm going to use a hollowpoint this year on my deer hunt in 357 Mag (out of a rifle) and I'll let you know. I'd hate to talk out of my butt before I see how it works on the intended target.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Well, you would be surprised that a rifled shotgun slug through the guts of a deer will stop it pretty quick, but that's an exception, not the rule. It's unfortunate that I even know that.

    You can get fantastic accuracy in the magnums with 20:1 alloy. It might help to choose a bullet with a gascheck, but I shoot plain base in 357 and 44 magnums just fine.
    Well, I've never shot a slug at game but your observation about gut shot slugs doesn't surprise me at all even tho I wouldn't have considered that to be within the range of this question. But, since you raise the issue, do you believe that rifled cast hollow point shotgun slugs kill deer better than SWC/flat points? Also in keeping with the point of the OP, tell us if you're casting your own rifled slugs or do you get them from someone else?

    Would it also surprise us to know what maximum .357/.44 mag handgun velocities and expansion you routinely obtain without stripping or leading with your soft (20:1) big game boolits?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check