For the $25.00 - $35.00 it cost it sounds easier and safer to use an FFL and be done with it.
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For the $25.00 - $35.00 it cost it sounds easier and safer to use an FFL and be done with it.
Exactly. Simple solution.
For those that have only heard of NJ's assine laws, it is a FELONY to have a slingshot in NJ, as is acquiring a bb gun, pellet gun, etc without a FOID Card. You cannot purchase an 80% and make a firearm in NJ as that is illegal also. I put up with those laws for 57 years and feel sorry for the folks still stuck there. Good luck Triplebeards, hopefully you will sell it to someone other than a NJ resident and all this would have been moot.
The 'Antique Firearm' deffinition from the GCA68 certainly does mention 'Reproductions of Antique Firearms',,,well OK they use the word Replica instead of Reproduction.Originally Posted by Battis
If the REPRO is chambered for such a cartridge (unavailable/not in production), then that REPRO of the Antique Firearm is also classed as an Antique Firearm inspite of it's post 1899 mfg date (modern Mfg.)
Here it is,,all 4 lines of it.
Antique firearm.
(a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica (1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
https://atf-eregs.18f.gov/478-11/03-...-p1739151166-d
It can't be much clearer.
(A) references orig mfg firearms,,,pre 1899 mfg are Antique
(B) references Reproductions of those original Antiques (A) and puts the cartridge availability clause in to say wether those Repros are considered Antique Status as well,,,or not.
No, it could be much clearer. With the current political climate, I would not ship a firearm to anyone except an FFL, unless it had a "primitive ignition": wheellock, flintlock, caplock, Goldilock, etc. If the buyer didn't want to pay the extra $25 for the transfer fee, so be it.
Do as you see fit, and so will I. Proving you're right can be expensive.
regardless of the law, where ever you may be, you might find a postal worker who makes up their own laws. I have run into these types several types. best of luck
That is the first 73 I have seen that the side plates and hammer were riveted onto the frame unless my 70+ eyeballs need calibration update.
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
There is " NO " way I would buy a gun like that ,,, but ,, if you had offered to sale it on here and I had seen it ,, " I WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE IT ", WHAT A GREAT PROJECT . ( would tell the wife it was a loaner ). Old or newer ,, I just do FFL , peace of mind.
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
Lol…me neither. Besides the plates riveted in someone cut out a notch in the receiver for a peep sight I’m guessing. I bought 7 guns, 40 plus pounds of powder, a couple thousands J word, reloading supplies, a bayonet, and a bunch of other goodies along with the 1873 all for $540 believe it or not. The thing I was most excited about was this 1873 till I started figuring out what it would take to restore it. My TV went out last week so the funds will be used for a new boob tube. Any left over will go towards??? Every time I see the notched out receiver I get an ulcer. I would have like to know what someone was thinking back in the day when they did all the “ fabrications” to it. Maybe it was some outlaw on the trail that couldn’t show his face in town at the time??? I never wanted to try to remove the side plates either since I didn’t have any screws or new side plates to replace them with if the holes were hogged out in them. I knew if I got started I’d be married to it.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 06-29-2021 at 09:49 PM.
Hey Tripp, ( not triying to hy-jack ), I love guns with character , but you are right , ya' get married to'um. You might be right , looks like he had to work on it by campfire light, if it could " talk ". Received a 45-60 barrel & receiver from a friend ,, made all the parts for it , ( Dremel's are only dangerous ,, when they are running ).
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
Sure you can do anything you want. That has nothing to do with the issue..
You posted in this thread that the Antique Firearms definition in the 68GCA did not contain any reference to Reproduction firearms.
I challenged that statement and provided my proof of that.
That's all.
That's what conversations are about.
The definition in very clear IMO.
If it's not, in your opinion, contact the people that wrote it for a better explanation.
Or continue to shake your head in confusion & blame 'the current political climate' (did that make changes to the GCA68 ?).
I know many dealers do just what you do as a CYA. I don't blame them or think otherwise of their methods. Their business, their rules as they say.
Feel better doing business that way. No harm.
But don't claim that that is what the current Fed Regulations call for.
They don't.
Have a nice day.
I'm not shaking my head in confusion, and you're wrong if you don't consider the current political climate in regards to firearms, especially when dealing with gray areas of the law. And I see that ammo description as a gray area, that could be used against a citizen at some point. And, as I said, defending a position, even when you're right, can get expensive.
This sounds like a FB argument.
It's not a gray area of the law. You simply stated that Repro firearms were not mentioned in the Antique Firearms definition.
I called you on it,,and showed you that you were incorrect..
That's all this is.
Laugh it off for Christs sake.
It's about as important as someone pointing out that you got dressed in the dark & put your T-shirt on inside out.
It is what it is,,the reg is perfectly clear.
If you want to go further than what it says you must do, then fine,,do that.
If you think the Secret Police hide behind every telephone pole, that's your opinion and are welcome to it.
The Fed Reg has been what it is for yrs now.
If you feel it's a gray area and are unsure about it, then err on the side of dazzling extra paper work, licenses, NICS checks, ect.
No real harm in doing that. Your gun,,your choice.
It doesn't change what the Fed Reg reads.,,and that's all I pointed out originally.
That was simply,,,that you were incorrect in your interpretation of it.
Yes it does include language regarding Reproductions of antique firerarms and how they may or may not also fall into the Antique status due to the ammunition they are chambered for and fire.
You said it didn't.
Tough to admit you were wrong?
Calm down, do what ever you want extra and above what's required and you'll sleep well at nite.
No Stasi Police sneaking up on you, no NY Lawyers to bankrupt you just to keep you out of Rikers.
Have a drink,,have a nice weekend,,buy some nice guns.
Nice country up near Medway, Millinocket.
Auf Wiedersehen,
Ich gehe jetzt
Wow. You didn't get my point, at all. Maybe a little reading comprehension class might help.
I'll speak slowly, with an example. You sell a rifle, say an antique 1873 Winchester, directly to a buyer in another state. Sure, it's an antique. OK. That buyer gets the rifle and goes to a store and buys ammo for it that's readily available (in normal times). Then he does something nefarious with it. He gets arrested, they trace the sale back to you; they ask you why did you sell a rifle to a person (convicted felon?) when there is ammo readily available. That is where the gray area of the ammo might come in. Sure, you can prove you did nothing wrong...maybe. But, it will cost you. Alot.
That's all I was saying. Which is why I'd go through an FFL.
Just wow.
I'm done.
Per Federal law felons can own per 1899 firearms. Johnny Cash's 1873 Colt collection is an example. Lots of states do NOT allow felons to own pre-1899 firearms, muzzleloaders or air rifles.
https://empirearms.com/pre-1899.htm
in response to numerous requests, here are the answers to the questions
that I most commonly get on pre-1899 firearms. The second half of this FAQ
posting lists serial number cut-offs for the 1899 threshold for many gun makers.
Q: What constitutes "antique" under U.S. law?
A: Although your State and local laws may vary, any firearm with a receiver actually made before Jan.
1, 1899 is legally "antique." and not considered a "firearm" under Federal law. This refers to the actual
date of manufacture of the receiver/frame, not just model year or patent date marked. (For example,
only low serial number Winchester Model 1894 lever actions are actually antique.) No FFL is required
to buy or sell antiques across state lines-- they are in the same legal category as a muzzle-loading
replica. I regularly ship them right to people's doorstep via UPS, with no "paper trail." Think of it as
the last bastion of gun ownership privacy.
Q: I saw a post that said that pre-1899s are considered modern “firearms” if they are chambered to fire
ammunition that is available off-the-shelf. Is this correct?
That is absolutely incorrect. ANY gun manufactured before Jan. 1, 1899 (other than a machinegun or
other NFA category, such as a short-barreled gun) is NOT controlled in any way by Federal law.
There is NO Federal requirement for sales of these guns to be handled by Federally licensed dealers.
They may be freely bought and sold across State lines by private parties, regardless of what cartridge
they are chambered in. (However, State or local laws vary.)
Q: Does sporterizing or re-chambering an antique end its exemption?
A: Sporterizing, re-barreling, or re-chambering an antique gun does not effect its legal status. Thus, I
can legally sell folks Mauser sporters that have been converted to modern cartridges (like .308 Winchester!),
without having to go through the "FFL to FFL" hassle.
Q: Would an antique serial number range gun be worth more than an otherwise identical gun made just
a few years later?
A: Pre-1899 production guns now bring a 20 to 60% premium over identical condition guns made
AFTER 1898. Based on market trends, I expect that premium to increase considerably in the next few
years. Many of my customers are commenting that they previously had no interest in "antique" guns,
but now want one or more because they are paranoid about additional gun laws. For the time being at
least, pre-1899 are completely EXEMPT from all federal laws. Presumably, this would also mean that
they would be exempt from registration if they ever have nationwide gun registration.... Think about
the possibilities.
Q: But what if I find a pre-1899 gun at a gun shop that was mistakenly logged into the
dealer's "bound book" of post-1899 firearms? Won’t I have to fill out a Form 4473
(yellow form)?
A: No. All the dealer has to do is log the gun out as: "Inadvertent entry. Pre-1899
manufactured receiver. No FFL required." (If the dealer gives you any grief and insists on
the yellow form, a call to any ATF branch office will confirm this.)
Last edited by M-Tecs; 07-02-2021 at 12:02 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
No matter the law. You are selling a firearm to someone you have never met. For a few bucks I would (and have) cover my butt.
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