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Thread: Savage 220 load options?

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Savage 220 load options?

    I just got a savage 220 for the purpose of deer hunting in a shotgun only area. Does anyone have experience with a fully rifled shotgun like this or this exact gun with slug in wad or full bore slugs?

    I would rather not invent the wheel all over again.

    Molds i have are lee 575 rb and lee 54 cal REAL. The 54 is a bit undersized i think and my 58 caliber REAL is too big for sure

    I have the ability to fold or roll crimp for 20g and a 1000 shotgun primers to play with. And i can powdercoat to increase diameter or for fullbore slugs. And i am willing to buy cast projectiles but would rather just buy a mold that someone else has already tested and call it a day.

    I would love to hear that someone has already figured this out with reasonable accuracy less than 8" spread at 150m. Which is my goal. And i dont know if that is reasonable but thats the goal i set for myself.

    Please share your knowledge with me.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Fury custom bullets makes a plastic based full bore slug that I shoot out of my 220. Killed plenty of hogs and 5 deer in the last several years. Dennis, aka as Uncle Dino is a contributer here and a whiz with bullet design. Give him a call.

    https://www.furycustombullets.com/we.../shotgun-slugs
    Last edited by Hogtamer; 06-23-2021 at 01:19 PM.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
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  3. #3
    Boolit Man
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    Those look nice. With the wad attached how do you get the height right? Or do you load short shells?

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Plastic gas seal over powder then 3/8 or 1/2" waxed wad, I'll have to check. I roll crimp these. I consider them 100 yd loads.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Here’s a Fury 20 ga slug shot from my 220. Still need to play around with it. I have a custom Tarhunt barrel on mine.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Boolit Man
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    So +1 on fury bullets. I will have to give them a try.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    BT, that bullet is a beast! IIRC 650 gr. I never shot an animal with mine though. Too much recoil for an old codger. Oh, that’s a 20 and I was thinking 12. How much does that one weigh?
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy uncle dino's Avatar
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    That 20 ga slug is 410 grains.. just shy of an ounce. D

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    Da man himself! Good to hear from you D.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  10. #10
    Boolit Man
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    UPDATE:
    several tests performed.

    575 RB: in WAA-20, petals cut down and roll crimped - crap accuracy. Way Forward: will try adding COW or some other buffer. will try overshot card. will try fold crimp with buffer.

    54 caliber: in WAA-20 sits loose so added 1 wrap of electrical tape - crap accuracy Way Forward: not gonna try further at this time.

    Russian Segmenting Slug: bought the Svarog model: sveroboy m-20 mold. ProTip: that mold has to be as hot as you can get it to cast right but it does cast well when wicked hot. cut petals off WAA-20 screwed into wad through slug with #4x1/2inch flat head wood screws. cut top off factory game loads. removed shot and wad. dropped russian slug with wad attached and roll crimped down.

    Results: excellent accuracy out to 75m(around 4 inch group). at 100m groups open up ridiculously(over 30 inches). after further investigation i found detached wads around 50-65m. Theory: the wads falling off destabilized the slug. Way Forward: try new wads(commander, brush wad), try fold crimp (Will require adjusting shot column) try longer or fatter screws.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I'm not surprised you didn't get good accuracy with the REAL. I can't even get them to shoot in the muzzleloaders they were designed for. The following is the load I shoot in my H&R Tracker II (rifled barrel). I couldn't even get factory loads to shoot good, but this one shoots about 1 1/2" at 50 yards with the open sights. This is a published load for the 350gr Lyman slug, but I substituted the round ball. Note that the groove diameter of my H&R is about .6265". If your Savage is closer to .618-.620", you may want to opt for a .625" ball. I'm casting in a .633" JT ball mold, and they drop about .630". I cant recall the exact scoop of PSB buffer I used, I use that to adjust to the height I need. You may add or remove nitro cards as needed to fit as well.

    20ga Federal 3"
    Federal 209A
    34gr Bluedot
    Federal 20S1 with petals cut off + (2) 20ga nitro cards
    .7cc Lee scoop of PSB buffer
    .630" round ball (about 355 grains)
    fold crimp

    This is published at about 1600 fps. I was actually getting closer to 1675 fps in my gun. It is one of the most impressive rounds I've seen a deer shot with.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisest.fool View Post
    UPDATE:
    several tests performed.

    575 RB: in WAA-20, petals cut down and roll crimped - crap accuracy. Way Forward: will try adding COW or some other buffer. will try overshot card. will try fold crimp with buffer.

    54 caliber: in WAA-20 sits loose so added 1 wrap of electrical tape - crap accuracy Way Forward: not gonna try further at this time.

    Russian Segmenting Slug: bought the Svarog model: sveroboy m-20 mold. ProTip: that mold has to be as hot as you can get it to cast right but it does cast well when wicked hot. cut petals off WAA-20 screwed into wad through slug with #4x1/2inch flat head wood screws. cut top off factory game loads. removed shot and wad. dropped russian slug with wad attached and roll crimped down.

    Results: excellent accuracy out to 75m(around 4 inch group). at 100m groups open up ridiculously(over 30 inches). after further investigation i found detached wads around 50-65m. Theory: the wads falling off destabilized the slug. Way Forward: try new wads(commander, brush wad), try fold crimp (Will require adjusting shot column) try longer or fatter screws.
    On those Russia slugs, get a hot plate to heat the mold up while your lead is coming up to temp. I don’t smoke or apart graphite the molds anymore. As for wads, I use the 20ga version of the brush wad and TC20 wads with the petals removed. I’m shooting same hole at 50 yards with 19 grs of 800X:




    If you’re having issues with the slug dropping f out of the mold, watch this video:

    https://youtu.be/mvuXvpab0zk






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Boolit Man
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    @megasupermagnum: That is the accuracy i am looking for. i will have to look into getting a .630 RB. havent slugged the barrel yet, just pushed wads through with projectiles. i will mic it to see what i get and try the full bore roundballs. where did you get your mold for that?

    @Blood Trail: Your post showing your results are what prompted me to try the sveroboy. i have ordered the TC-20 wads from BPI but they are slow to ship right now. all i had was waa20. are you rolling them or have you tried fold crimping them? what screws are you using?

  14. #14
    Boolit Man
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    also that purple powdercoat is very nice

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master


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    You can order any size you want from JT ball molds. They were pre-2020 about $42 shipped to my door in about 3 weeks. I don't know if it is still true. https://www.ballmoulds.com/

    He cuts the molds to the CAVITY size. I find on average, they drop balls about .003" smaller than the cavity size. I've got 5 or 6 of these molds, and they are usually pretty close to that. For a .630" ball, I'd recommend a .633" mold. For a .625" ball, I'd recommend a .628" mold. It's not rocket science with these, which is what makes them so great. As long as you are somewhere in that .002" to .010" over groove diameter, you should be good. Slugging your bore is best. If you measure with a calipers, the reading always seems to be smaller by a couple thousandths. If you measure with a calipers and get somewhere in the .614" to .618" range, I'd get a .628" mold. If you are somewhere in the .618" to .625" range, I'd get the .633". One other note, I'm giving these one or two coats in ALOX tumble lube for good measure. I get zero leading.

    Bloodtrail won't lead you wrong either. He gets some real impressive accuracy with those Russian slug molds.

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    You can order any size you want from JT ball molds. They were pre-2020 about $42 shipped to my door in about 3 weeks. I don't know if it is still true. https://www.ballmoulds.com/

    He cuts the molds to the CAVITY size. I find on average, they drop balls about .003" smaller than the cavity size. I've got 5 or 6 of these molds, and they are usually pretty close to that. For a .630" ball, I'd recommend a .633" mold. For a .625" ball, I'd recommend a .628" mold. It's not rocket science with these, which is what makes them so great. As long as you are somewhere in that .002" to .010" over groove diameter, you should be good. Slugging your bore is best. If you measure with a calipers, the reading always seems to be smaller by a couple thousandths. If you measure with a calipers and get somewhere in the .614" to .618" range, I'd get a .628" mold. If you are somewhere in the .618" to .625" range, I'd get the .633". One other note, I'm giving these one or two coats in ALOX tumble lube for good measure. I get zero leading.

    Bloodtrail won't lead you wrong either. He gets some real impressive accuracy with those Russian slug molds.
    The one I just ordered was 50 pounds, so $69. That's shipped all the way to Oregon, so if you're back east it might be less.

  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    Thank you all for the feedback. I will try JT ball molds.

    i will probably slug/mic both my 12 and 20gauge for full bore round balls and get both at once to pay shipping once. I read the forums to see what works and I did come to the conclusion that full bore would work better but the lee molds were just available and cheap.

    The best slug in wad I have tried from rifling is the Russian match mold. The best slug in wad from a smoothbore has been the lee 7/8 key drive. The sveroboy is the first full bore load for shotgun I have tried and its definitely more accurate. The lee 1 oz has not been nearly as accurate/stable with either rifling or smoothbore.

    Please take my findings with a grain of salt I haven't been as scientific with shotguns as I usually am with metallic because I'm just starting out loading for shotguns and don't know a lot about them. More like taking a shot in the dark and having fun casting some new stuff. Also I'm apparently crap at getting a good fold crimp so most everything i have loaded for slugs has been roll crimped.

    Hopefully after I move to Campbell I will have more time to test variables one at a time. This has mainly been an effort to get an accurate enough round to get some deer in the freezer with the weapons allowed on FT Campbell. I could just go buy some factory rounds, but where is the fun in that?

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisest.fool View Post
    UPDATE:
    several tests performed.

    575 RB: in WAA-20, petals cut down and roll crimped - crap accuracy. Way Forward: will try adding COW or some other buffer. will try overshot card. will try fold crimp with buffer.

    54 caliber: in WAA-20 sits loose so added 1 wrap of electrical tape - crap accuracy Way Forward: not gonna try further at this time.

    Russian Segmenting Slug: bought the Svarog model: sveroboy m-20 mold. ProTip: that mold has to be as hot as you can get it to cast right but it does cast well when wicked hot. cut petals off WAA-20 screwed into wad through slug with #4x1/2inch flat head wood screws. cut top off factory game loads. removed shot and wad. dropped russian slug with wad attached and roll crimped down.

    Results: excellent accuracy out to 75m(around 4 inch group). at 100m groups open up ridiculously(over 30 inches). after further investigation i found detached wads around 50-65m. Theory: the wads falling off destabilized the slug. Way Forward: try new wads(commander, brush wad), try fold crimp (Will require adjusting shot column) try longer or fatter screws.

    Am not surprised that you get "crap" accuracy with the round ball loads. The Savage 200 series, unless I am very much mistaken, are really designed for the specialized "sabot slugs" or their approximate equivalent. An improvised round ball load, spun through a rifled barrel... no, just no. I don't blame you for giving it a shot, so to speak. But, you are wise to not continue with that...as you said.

    I am NO expert, but.... I think that to get anywhere you will have to concentrate on basically duplicating, in some senses, the factory loaded (and very expensive) sabot type slugs. I think that most people who get the rifled shotguns, thinking that they might be able to cobble together some kind of improvised load (like you often can with a smooth bore)...end up dissappointed and end up learning this lesson "the hard way".

  19. #19
    Boolit Man
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    Well, I didn't expect to get great results immediately and I did expect to get some "curveball" effects from spinning them faster than the black powder rifles they are designed for, but I really reload for the fun of conducting experiments and learning new stuff. I have a smooth bore shotgun in 20 gauge as well and I will try that. But I did just get some commander 20g wads and I will try those next. Still learning shotgun loading. The Russian sveroboy slugs I think will be a winner. Just got a 12 gauge mold and the green brushwads from bpi fit them nicelyClick image for larger version. 

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  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by bcp477 View Post
    Am not surprised that you get "crap" accuracy with the round ball loads. The Savage 200 series, unless I am very much mistaken, are really designed for the specialized "sabot slugs" or their approximate equivalent. An improvised round ball load, spun through a rifled barrel... no, just no. I don't blame you for giving it a shot, so to speak. But, you are wise to not continue with that...as you said.

    I am NO expert, but.... I think that to get anywhere you will have to concentrate on basically duplicating, in some senses, the factory loaded (and very expensive) sabot type slugs. I think that most people who get the rifled shotguns, thinking that they might be able to cobble together some kind of improvised load (like you often can with a smooth bore)...end up dissappointed and end up learning this lesson "the hard way".
    I can't say I agree with a single thing in this statement. The Savage 212 and 220 were not designed for anything. They are a bolt action shotgun, with a plain old rifled barrel. They don't have any special tricks that you can't get in any other rifle barrel shotgun, other than having a good platform and trigger for accuracy. They still have sloppy shotgun chambers, long forcing cones (no throat), and regular rifling. The twist rate is pretty much with all the others out there at 1:24" twist.

    I have had WAY, WAY more success getting good slug accuracy with rifled barrels than I have smooth bores. It is extremely hard to match the accuracy of certain rifled slugs, as there simply are no rifled slugs you can buy to load. Most slugs are for wads, or add other aspects or variables. It can be done, but it is not easy. Rifled barrels on the other hand, you can definitely match factory ammo accuracy. You just can't quite match the velocity of the super light sabot slugs. Every sabot I've ever known about for reloading has been a royal flop in the accuracy department. Round balls are usually extremely accurate from a rifled barrel. I get as good accuracy from a round ball in a rifled barrel, as I ever got with the highest dollar sabot slugs. You can get consistent 4" groups at 100 yards with a round ball. You might even be able to improve on that if you really tested some combinations. You see talks about MOA slug guns, it's all a crock. Once in a while 3 shots get close together, and an internet rumor is born. I always offer to give someone a free range day to show me their MOA slug gun, with the rule you have to do it twice. Two five shot groups. I've only had one taker, he was surprised to learn he really had a 4 MOA slug gun. I don't accept "fliers" as accidents.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check