Remington Rolling Block Creedmoor Long Range

[marlinman93]

The latest Rolling Block purchase just arrived here yesterday! A model I was certain I'd never own, and had actually built a clone of not that long ago, as I knew I'd never find a real Creedmoor rifle!
This my Long Range Creedmoor Rolling Block::








It has many of the features of all Creedmoor rifles, which include the 34" barrel, .44S marked for the .44-77SBN chambering. And the typical pistol grip checkered stock, and is set up for long range tang sights at the top tang, and the stock heel locations. Also set up for the windage globe front sight, and an extra dovetail ahead of the globe for the windage scale that was on early Creedmoor front sights.
The bore is fantastic, with no corrosion, and great rifling. Need to slug it, and do a chamber cast to determine it's still correct. But no reason to doubt it. Would be nice if it uses the same bullet mold my other .44-77SBN uses!
This rifle has some very unique features, besides the sights. It has a 1/8" dovetail cut over the chamber for a spirit level! It also has a full round barrel that is one of only a few known made. There were also a few made with full octagon, as Major Fulton of the US Creedmoor team had, as did Custer. All others were 34" half octagon barrels.



This gun was also built a year before the Creedmoor model was offered in Remington catalogs in 1874! Fulton's rifle is #3314, and Custer's is #3300, both built and shipped in 1874. Mine is in the #1500 range, so the lowest known serial number for a Remington Creedmoor. The guns built in 1873 were sold to people who had inside knowledge of the model coming out in 1874, since they weren't advertised, or in Remington's catalog. Wish I knew who might have ordered, or purchased this one? And wish the sights were still on it!
I have a correct windage globe front sight, and a decent repro tang sight from the run Remington did in 1997. But I'm ordering a nicer copy from The Original Sight Co. to put on the tang.
The Creedmoor model was built from 1873-1878, and less than 300 total built. They sold between $125 and $150 depending on wood grade, and checkering. At the same time a regular Rolling Block sporter sold for $28, so these were a very expensive rifle new!

[Chill Wills]

Great find. I too am sorry the sights have been removed. I would love to hold it and look it over. Creedmoor has always been of special interest to me.

[marlinman93]

Great find. I too am sorry the sights have been removed. I would love to hold it and look it over. Creedmoor has always been of special interest to me.

Same here. I love anything about long range guns, and the history. And Creedmoor was the beginning of all that. Not to mention the beginning of the NRA to support long range shooting in 1870's! The end of Creedmoor by NY State governor in 1880 really killed that type of shooting, and nearly killed the NRA back then too!
But after the USA dominated every other country in long range shooting for about 4 years in the mid to late 1870's, it too took a toll on long range shooting! Most countries saw it as a waste of time and money to send teams to the US only to get beaten.

[koger]

What a find, happy for you. Thanks for sharing the pics and taking us along for the ride!

[Shawlerbrook]

Very nice Val . Another old gun that if only it could tell it’s story.

[marlinman93]

Very nice Val . Another old gun that if only it could tell it’s story.

Thanks. Yes, I'd love to know where it's been and who bought it originally. Unfortunately the seller said he bought it at a small auction house in Montana, so I have no way of getting any possible history on it.
Can't begin to say how often I wish Remington had kept good records!

[MOA]

What a super acquisition. You'll have to post some images from the range after you pick up the additional sighting instrumentation, along with targets, chamber castings and some assembled cartridges.

[John Taylor]

My father picked up an old gun for fixing a guys car in the 50s. It has three notches in the stock and we always talked about the possibilities. It was found in an old miners shack so it could have been three claim jumpers or maybe three bears.

[Chill Wills]

Thanks. Yes, I'd love to know where it's been and who bought it originally. Unfortunately the seller said he bought it at a small auction house in Montana, so I have no way of getting any possible history on it.
Can't begin to say how often I wish Remington had kept good records!

About the Remington records, one credible story I hear is, much of the old records were water damaged in a fire in the early part of the 20th century. I got this from Charlie Semmer who authored the book, Remington Double Shotguns.

[marlinman93]

About the Remington records, one credible story I hear is, much of the old records were water damaged in a fire in the early part of the 20th century. I got this from Charlie Semmer who authored the book, Remington Double Shotguns.

I too heard a similar tale from Roy Marcot. He and a small group of Remington Collectors Assn. members were going through Remington's existing records once a year, trying to figure out if they could determine anything in there that was included in repair records to help date firearms.
They were often shut down as Remington lawyers feared they'd find something they didn't want out of the factory. Reassurances were made to the company that they had no interest in anything that wasn't historical, so they were allowed to continue. But no idea what they've discovered, or if they'll be able to continue under the new ownership or not?

[GARD72977]

Thats a very nice rifle. Great addition to your collection!

[smithnframe]

Very nice!

[marlinman93]

Thanks.
I found a problem on the barrel when trying the Remington globe front sight assembly yesterday. The dovetail is extremely shallow, and the trailing edge of the dovetail cut had the metal broken off! So the sight pushed into the cut could be easily pried out, and likely would fall out with a shot or two!
I use a young welder guy for this type of precise repairs needing a tig welder. I can burn in welds with my Miller mig, but not touching guns with it! Eli can do tig welds that are gorgeous, and on an area like this where the amount needed to fill is so tiny, he's better than anyone I've used.
So headed over last night and in maybe a minute he had the metal added to the lip so I can file and shape it down now. The nice part is the spirit level on the windage globe covers it, so a little Oxphoblue on it when I'm done is all it will need.
Cost me a whopping $10 for the repair, so a cheap fix. Spent another hour there just catching up, since we've not seen each other in close to two years now.

[hawkenhunter50]

I can't see the pictures, but it sounds like you got a real nice gun. Love the old target rifles.

[marlinman93]

Here's the long range repro sight from the Original Sight Co. in Wyoming:

[MOA]

Now that's quite a nice looking shooter.

[pworley1]

Congratulations!

[marlinman93]

Thanks!
Dug through my bullets I have on hand to see what might be used for loading ammo for this rifle. I got 91 new .44-77 cases built by Gain Twist Rifling in Cody, Wy. that came with this gun. The groove diameter is similar sized to what most 1800's .44 centerfires are at around .452" groove. It's a 5 groove, so a bit tough to get an accurate measurement with my micrometer after slugging it. But I plan to size down some 405 gr. .457" bullets I have to .453" and see how they shoot. I sized one down yesterday to build a dummy cartridge that will let me know how far out I can seat them to start, and also make sure the .453" bullets seated in the case will chamber OK. After determining the OAL, they chambered just fine. The chamber and lead into the rifling allows for the bullets to seat way out, and that's not surprising.
The 405 gr. bullets are a fairly rounded nose, so might look at more of a Snover, or Money shaped nose, and heavier to try also. Originals for this rifle were a paper patched 535 gr. so it can handle a heavier bullet if the nose shape allows it to seat out further. I'm not interested in getting into patching bullets, so I want to shoot lubed bullets in it.

[bpcrshooter]

Thats a fantastic looking rifle! what is the twist?? 1-18? I have a couple 44 cal molds and am having a 44-70 being built. one is a .443 DDPP mold and the other is a 3 reduced band GG bullet

This is the DDPP mold......https://www.buffaloarms.com/443-495-...443495epp.html
The DDPP bullet shoots very well! I also have friend who shoots a 44-77 and is doing VERY well with bore sized PP bullets.

again, beautiful rifle and congrats!!

matt

[marlinman93]

Thats a fantastic looking rifle! what is the twist?? 1-18? I have a couple 44 cal molds and am having a 44-70 being built. one is a .443 DDPP mold and the other is a 3 reduced band GG bullet

This is the DDPP mold......https://www.buffaloarms.com/443-495-...443495epp.html
The DDPP bullet shoots very well! I also have friend who shoots a 44-77 and is doing VERY well with bore sized PP bullets.

again, beautiful rifle and congrats!!

matt

These old guns used slower twist rates than we see these days. I believe it's a 1:20" twist rate. Which by today's standards should not stabilize the 535 gr. bullet. But they certainly did well for the US team in the long range matches.

The BACO bullet might be a bit small even if paper patched, as the .43 Spanish is a smaller groove. It would likely take 3 wraps of paper to build it up to fit, but then not sure the rifling would cut through the paper to ensure it comes off cleanly as the bullet exits the bore. Most use a .446" bullet, and two wraps of paper to cleanly cut the paper and work well.
As I mentioned before, I am not planning on shooting paper patched bullets, so I'll stick with grease groove bullets.