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Thread: Pendersoli pistols

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Pendersoli pistols

    Picked up a couple pendersoli pistols unexpectedly recently. Having trouble finding load data. The only .45 projectiles I have on hand are 230 gr rnfps sized to .452. can these work? Anyone know of any load data? Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master Skipper's Avatar
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  3. #3
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    Just found that actually. Unfortunately it only covers the round ball. May be that no data exists for other size projectiles.

  4. #4
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    Those Pedersoli pistols are meant for patched round ball , but you can try your bullets as are loaded like maxi balls , if they are dead soft and will engrave to the rifling on loading seat firm to powder , I would start out at 25 grains and work up , my first muzzle loading pistol I started out as was suggested to me with a 380acp case full of black powder was pretty anemic , moved up to a 45 colt case full , worked better .

  5. #5
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    25 gr? The data I found for a round ball said 18-30. Not sure what the round ball weighs but it's much less than the 230 gr bullet. Was thinking about starting with 10 or 12.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Use a patched .440 round ball. Either a .010" or .015" LUBRICATED cotton patch will work but the .010 patch is easier to load. These are rifled to shoot RB's not slugs.
    If this is all new to you, a little reading and study will serve you well. Perhaps a Muzzleloading course from a certified NRA Instructor would be beneficial to ensure you get the most enjoyment from these pistols. Flintlocks can humiliate a new BP shooter so I would suggest a little range time with a gray beard if its all new to ya. Enjoy!

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    .440? The bore is measuring about 460. Will the patch make up that much? Midway has a .445 in stock

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    You didn't state what you plan on using for powder. Those rock locks require real black and not substitute. I shoot about 30 grns. of FFFg in the barrel and 4f in the pan in my .50 cal. Trapper Pistol.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yeah I was wondering about that. I have on hand pyrodex fffg equivalent and some 777. Would either of those work?

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Nope. Ignition temperature is too high.

    Asking these kinds of questions methinks you need to read a bit about muzzleloaders in general and flintlocks in particular.

    .440 round ball and a .015 to .020 patch over 20 to 30 grs. of real BP should be an excellent starting point.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Okay yes these just dropped in my lap it seems I do have a bit more than I thought to learn before shooting these.

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    Just curious, what does any of this have to do with Paper Patching?

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  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    What section should it have gone in? I find the forum selection on this board to be rather limited. I find I always end up chosing the most pertinent subforum and that I rarely have a topic that falls directly into the description of any subforum.

  14. #14
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    "What section should it have gone in? "

    The "Muzzleloading" section.
    This one is "Black powder paper patch" and the black powder is the part that throws you off. This section is about (mostly) loading brass cartridges with lead bullets rapped with paper.

    No worries.
    Chill Wills

  15. #15
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    Loading Black Powder is different than loading Smokeless.
    Black Powder is measured by volume, not by weight.
    Your bullet or patched round ball NEEDS to be seated tight against the powder charge. This means NO air space at all or you could risk a ruptured barrel.
    Your bullet or round ball NEEDS to be cast of pure to near pure lead, or it will be a nightmare to try and push the bullet down the barrel. You should be able to push the patched round ball or conical bullet down the barrel with the ramrod by hand. If you have to really put your shoulder into it or use a rubber mallet, then your bullets are either way too hard or way too big.

    For loading round balls, you need to pay attention to the thickness of the round lubricated patch that goes around the lead ball. Your lead ball will be undersized and might just roll down the barrel without a patch. The patch, usually .010" thick, makes up the difference in the size of the barrel and the ball. Changing to a .015" patch can effect the pressure needed for loading and may make your groups more or less consistent. To find out, you'll have to try it.

    Before loading, you'll want to make sure that your flint will make sparks. Make sure that the pistol is unloaded and that there is not any Black Powder in the flash pan!
    Do this outside just in case... Point the pistol in a safe direction, with the frizzen down, pull the hammer back and fire it. If you have sparks that went down into the flash pan, you should be good to go.
    Anybody else please chime in with more complete instructions on this step.

    To load your pistol:
    First make sure that it is not already loaded.
    Make sure the hammer is not cocked or that there is any powder in the flash pan. You don't want it to go off while if you bump it while loading
    Put your ramrod down the barrel, put a pencil mark on it and compare to the barrel length. Use a bright flashlight to look down the barrel and make sure you see the end of the barrel and not a round ball or conical bullet.
    Now assuming it is empty, stand your pistol up on it's grip and use your volume measure set at 30 grains to measure out the FFFg Black Powder, later you can adjust it up or down depending on your needs.
    Have your patch already lubed and your round balls ready so you don't have to go looking for them.
    Dump your 30 grain Black Powder charge down the barrel, do not look down the barrel while you do this. If you have already shot it and are loading it again, there can be a very small chance that there could be a hot ember down in the barrel. It there is and you pour the powder down the barrel, it can ignite and blow all of the burning Black Powder in your face. This would be a bad thing.
    Also never dump powder directly from the can or your flask into the barrel. If there's an ember and it catches on fire, you just lost a hand or worse. The powder flask is used to pour Black Powder into your volume measure, then the volume measure is used to pour the powder into the barrel. Yes, this is how I do it everytime.
    So now you have your powder in the barrel. Place the lubed round patch centered on the muzzle, then put your round ball directly in the center. Push it down until it kind of sticks in the rifling. If your patch went off to one side then your shots will not be consistent. Pull it back out and center the ball on the patch... If you are using cast round balls there will be a flat spot from the sprue plate, put the flat spot either straight up or straight down. This will help the ball to spin and stabilize better.
    Now take your ramrod and put the cupped end on top of the ball, hold it tight with one hand and give it a good smack with the palm of your other hand to get the patched round ball started down the barrel. Then, with both hands on the ram rod, push the patched round ball all the way to the bottom. Hopefully this will all go in one smooth push, if not put your palm on top of the ram rod and give it a good hard push to get the ball seated. I usually give the ramrod 3 good hard smacks to make sure the ball is seated on top of the powder. (Yes, I always give it 3 good smacks) Consistency is the key to good success and good accuracy.
    Now put your ramrod away, some people get in a rush and shoot the ramrod out of the pistol. This would be a bad thing.
    If you look for Black Powder accesories, you can find a Ball Starter. It is a large round ball with about 1/2" of ramrod on it and about 2" of ramrod about 90Deg offset. This is so you can put the short end on the patched round ball and give it a good smack with your hand, then use the 2" long section to push the ball down into the barrel, follow this up with your regular ramrod. This will save wear and tear on the palm of your hand.

    Now it's time for someone else to take over the instructions...
    I have been shooting Muzzle loaders for around 40 years, but...
    I have never shot a flint lock. So the following will be just from what I have read.
    Now it's time to it's time to charge your flash pan with FFFFg Black Powder, close the lid on it(the Frizzen?)
    Point the pistol in a safe direction, cock the hammer and fire away.
    If it does not fire, keep the pistol pointed down range, it may be a hang fire and go off in a couple of seconds????!!!!
    If it did fire, wait 10-15 seconds before you load it again to make sure there are no hot spots in the barrel...

    Good luck, be safe and let us know how it goes.
    I would strongly recommend that you either find someone close that can give you hands on instruction with a flint lock, and or read up on it as much as you can. Maybe look up some Utube videos also.

    There will be Black Powder fouling left behind in the barrel and will be harder to load after each additional firing.
    I have a great black powder lube that really helps to keep the fouling soft and makes cleanup very quick and easy.

    I almost forgot: Clean your pistol very well after you shoot it.
    For my muzzle loader rifles, I take the barrel out of the stock, Mine use a percussion cap, so I take the nipple out. Get a small bucket of HOT soapy water, put the breach end in the bucket and use a patch on a jag to go up and down in the barrel. When you pull the cleaning rod up, it will suck up the hot soapy water to rinse out the inside of the barrel. You need HOT soapy water to stop the corrosion. Scrub the barrel until it is clean. Take the barrel out of the water and dry it off really good inside and out. The barrel will be hot and that helps the water to evaporate and dry out. Oil the the barrel inside and out so it doesn't rust...

    One final note: Black Powder can be very forgiving on the powder charge as long as you seat the ball firmly on top of the powder charge. You could probably go from 20-40 grains of FFFg Black Powder and be fine.

    Let me know if there is anything I can help with.
    If you need a good patch lube or a lube for conicals, check out my web store.
    https://www.lsstuff.com/store/index....6ug3lmg36iiq96

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    "What section should it have gone in? "

    The "Muzzleloading" section.
    This one is "Black powder paper patch" and the black powder is the part that throws you off. This section is about (mostly) loading brass cartridges with lead bullets rapped with paper.

    No worries.
    I see now. Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing that out. Should have seen that.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Loading Black Powder is different than loading Smokeless.
    Black Powder is measured by volume, not by weight.
    Your bullet or patched round ball NEEDS to be seated tight against the powder charge. This means NO air space at all or you could risk a ruptured barrel.
    Your bullet or round ball NEEDS to be cast of pure to near pure lead, or it will be a nightmare to try and push the bullet down the barrel. You should be able to push the patched round ball or conical bullet down the barrel with the ramrod by hand. If you have to really put your shoulder into it or use a rubber mallet, then your bullets are either way too hard or way too big.

    For loading round balls, you need to pay attention to the thickness of the round lubricated patch that goes around the lead ball. Your lead ball will be undersized and might just roll down the barrel without a patch. The patch, usually .010" thick, makes up the difference in the size of the barrel and the ball. Changing to a .015" patch can effect the pressure needed for loading and may make your groups more or less consistent. To find out, you'll have to try it.

    Before loading, you'll want to make sure that your flint will make sparks. Make sure that the pistol is unloaded and that there is not any Black Powder in the flash pan!
    Do this outside just in case... Point the pistol in a safe direction, with the frizzen down, pull the hammer back and fire it. If you have sparks that went down into the flash pan, you should be good to go.
    Anybody else please chime in with more complete instructions on this step.

    To load your pistol:
    First make sure that it is not already loaded.
    Make sure the hammer is not cocked or that there is any powder in the flash pan. You don't want it to go off while if you bump it while loading
    Put your ramrod down the barrel, put a pencil mark on it and compare to the barrel length. Use a bright flashlight to look down the barrel and make sure you see the end of the barrel and not a round ball or conical bullet.
    Now assuming it is empty, stand your pistol up on it's grip and use your volume measure set at 30 grains to measure out the FFFg Black Powder, later you can adjust it up or down depending on your needs.
    Have your patch already lubed and your round balls ready so you don't have to go looking for them.
    Dump your 30 grain Black Powder charge down the barrel, do not look down the barrel while you do this. If you have already shot it and are loading it again, there can be a very small chance that there could be a hot ember down in the barrel. It there is and you pour the powder down the barrel, it can ignite and blow all of the burning Black Powder in your face. This would be a bad thing.
    Also never dump powder directly from the can or your flask into the barrel. If there's an ember and it catches on fire, you just lost a hand or worse. The powder flask is used to pour Black Powder into your volume measure, then the volume measure is used to pour the powder into the barrel. Yes, this is how I do it everytime.
    So now you have your powder in the barrel. Place the lubed round patch centered on the muzzle, then put your round ball directly in the center. Push it down until it kind of sticks in the rifling. If your patch went off to one side then your shots will not be consistent. Pull it back out and center the ball on the patch... If you are using cast round balls there will be a flat spot from the sprue plate, put the flat spot either straight up or straight down. This will help the ball to spin and stabilize better.
    Now take your ramrod and put the cupped end on top of the ball, hold it tight with one hand and give it a good smack with the palm of your other hand to get the patched round ball started down the barrel. Then, with both hands on the ram rod, push the patched round ball all the way to the bottom. Hopefully this will all go in one smooth push, if not put your palm on top of the ram rod and give it a good hard push to get the ball seated. I usually give the ramrod 3 good hard smacks to make sure the ball is seated on top of the powder. (Yes, I always give it 3 good smacks) Consistency is the key to good success and good accuracy.
    Now put your ramrod away, some people get in a rush and shoot the ramrod out of the pistol. This would be a bad thing.
    If you look for Black Powder accesories, you can find a Ball Starter. It is a large round ball with about 1/2" of ramrod on it and about 2" of ramrod about 90Deg offset. This is so you can put the short end on the patched round ball and give it a good smack with your hand, then use the 2" long section to push the ball down into the barrel, follow this up with your regular ramrod. This will save wear and tear on the palm of your hand.

    Now it's time for someone else to take over the instructions...
    I have been shooting Muzzle loaders for around 40 years, but...
    I have never shot a flint lock. So the following will be just from what I have read.
    Now it's time to it's time to charge your flash pan with FFFFg Black Powder, close the lid on it(the Frizzen?)
    Point the pistol in a safe direction, cock the hammer and fire away.
    If it does not fire, keep the pistol pointed down range, it may be a hang fire and go off in a couple of seconds????!!!!
    If it did fire, wait 10-15 seconds before you load it again to make sure there are no hot spots in the barrel...

    Good luck, be safe and let us know how it goes.
    I would strongly recommend that you either find someone close that can give you hands on instruction with a flint lock, and or read up on it as much as you can. Maybe look up some Utube videos also.

    There will be Black Powder fouling left behind in the barrel and will be harder to load after each additional firing.
    I have a great black powder lube that really helps to keep the fouling soft and makes cleanup very quick and easy.

    I almost forgot: Clean your pistol very well after you shoot it.
    For my muzzle loader rifles, I take the barrel out of the stock, Mine use a percussion cap, so I take the nipple out. Get a small bucket of HOT soapy water, put the breach end in the bucket and use a patch on a jag to go up and down in the barrel. When you pull the cleaning rod up, it will suck up the hot soapy water to rinse out the inside of the barrel. You need HOT soapy water to stop the corrosion. Scrub the barrel until it is clean. Take the barrel out of the water and dry it off really good inside and out. The barrel will be hot and that helps the water to evaporate and dry out. Oil the the barrel inside and out so it doesn't rust...

    One final note: Black Powder can be very forgiving on the powder charge as long as you seat the ball firmly on top of the powder charge. You could probably go from 20-40 grains of FFFg Black Powder and be fine.

    Let me know if there is anything I can help with.
    If you need a good patch lube or a lube for conicals, check out my web store.
    https://www.lsstuff.com/store/index....6ug3lmg36iiq96
    Thanks so much for all the advice. I picked this gun up knowing nothing and I've learned a lot quickly since I did but your post brings it all together. I got a lee r.e.a.l. mold on the way to make projectiles.

    One question for you. How much trouble would I cause myself if I didn't bother picking up any ffff powder for the tray? Would fff in the tray be almost as good or intolerable?

  18. #18
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    Honestly I don't know. You could always try FFFg instead of FFFFg for your flash powder.
    There was probably a reason that the old timers used it instead of just FFFg.

    Another note, when you get your load settled upon, mark the depth on the ramrod, so you'll always know if you have the bullets seated.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Honestly I don't know. You could always try FFFg instead of FFFFg for your flash powder.
    There was probably a reason that the old timers used it instead of just FFFg.

    Another note, when you get your load settled upon, mark the depth on the ramrod, so you'll always know if you have the bullets seated.
    Tried real 4f in the pan and Pyrodex down the tube. Still seemed like it took a week and a half to ignite the main charge. There is no substitute for real black powder in a flintlock.
    A vote for anyone other then the conservative candidates is a vote for the liberal candidates.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    3F in the pan will work and probably nearly as well as 4F. You can always use a non-sparking mortar and pestle and grind up some 3F. I've done that a lot and it works just fine.

    If you have real BP in 3F granulation you CAN drop 5-10 grs. of the real stuff down the bore and follow it with a wanna be black powder and it will work. This adds another step, and another place for error so I've never bothered to do it as it doesn't make sense to me.

    You'll need a vent pick for the touch hole. When you drop your main charge and have the ball seated, force the pick into the main charge creating a sort of tunnel. You can leave that as is or, when you charge the pan, force some of the finer granulation priming powder into the tunnel. That's what I do, mostly because it makes me feel better. DO NOT fill the pan and cover the touch hole. Approximately 1/3 of a pan should be PLENTY powder. If you fill the pan you'll be creating a fuse, which is where the "pfffft" comes from. Ignition should be fast and just be a clack/bang, with the "clack" hardly discernible. A sharp flint is mandatory for fast ignition and they can be knapped to keep an edge. The French Amber flints from Horst & McCann are the best I've ever used. Next best has been Tom Fowler's black English flints and lastly, some Ozark knapped flints. If the frizzens are too soft, you're basically screwed but, they can usually be hardened.

    Flinters are fun and give up absolutely nothing to percussion firearms. It's the shooter that makes the difference. I've been match shooting and hunting with flintlocks since '75 or '76. Flintlock handguns are a real challenge. I have two, one a smoothbore, 62 cal. Matt Avance and the other a custom 45 cal. Kentucky style pistol. Inside 50 yards it will outshoot every other handgun I have, from a rest. Offhand....well, that's where the difference in shooters comes in. I could use a LOT of practice....lol! Flinters separate the men from the boys real quick.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check