Trimming brass is the worst

[Three44s]

You should be resizing all the brass first before you trim it, or they won't come out the same anyway.

I rough trim unsized brass on my Lyman Universal because it cuts faster and my pilot is too tight in sized necks. Also, after a big cut I need to debur the case mouth.

The Wilson uses no pilot but is a little slower than the Lyman at cutting and it gives the squarest cut of any system out there.

The brass gets FL sized then re-trimmed on the Wilson.

Anyway I go there is going to be two trips on a trimmer because of the thickening of the case mouth rim so it’s: Lyman, debur, FL size, Wilson, debur. Then the flash hole debur while the cases are as uniform in length as they are going to be for a while.

Three44s

[Three44s]

Any suggestions on a trimmer for this?




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You know, that would sure put a hurt on an attacking speed boat in the Straights of Hormuz!

Three44s

[Dieselhorses]

You know, that would sure put a hurt on an attacking speed boat in the Straights of Hormuz!

Three44s

Yes it would! I don't know that much about these (I was a nuke machinist mate-not a gunner). At a minimum I need to find something to reshape the mouth to be perfectly round (not flared).

[Binky]

I use a Wilson trimmer with a drill attachment. Set the vice up on my drill press and lock in the trimmer for large batches. Makes it go a little faster and easier but it is still the worst part of handloading! I don't shoot in matches anymore so most of my trimming is done in less than 100 round batches.

[uscra112]

Have used a Forster trimmer for years, but my batch sizes rarely exceed 100 or so. One trick I use is to wad up a shop rag and use it to turn the crank and apply pressure. Saves my poor old fingers. Last batch required trimming .22 Hornet down from 1.40" to 1.125" to make .25 Stevens, so there was quite a bit of brass to remove. Only did 40 pieces, though.

[Three44s]

Have used a Forster trimmer for years, but my batch sizes rarely exceed 100 or so. One trick I use is to wad up a shop rag and use it to turn the crank and apply pressure. Saves my poor old fingers. Last batch required trimming .22 Hornet down from 1.40" to 1.125" to make .25 Stevens, so there was quite a bit of brass to remove. Only did 40 pieces, though.

That is a good idea as my fingers take a beating as well! I might test a glove for that work as well.

Thanks for the tip!

Three44s

[uscra112]

I hold the wad on my palm. Press and crank. Because you can put so much more pressure on this way, heavy cuts are relatively easy. Like taking 1/4 inch off those Hornet cases.

[Taterhead]

I started with Lee trimmers. Then an RCBS Trim Pro (better but still tedious). Enter the Giraud Tri-Way trimmer. Trim, de-burr and chamfer in mere seconds. I can do a lot of them in an hour. Here it is coupled to an inexpensive bench grinder. Very handy and high throughout with very consistent and quality results. Worth every penny.

As was alluded to in a previous post, this indexes off the shoulder, so a consistent shoulder bump through the sizer = consistent trim lengths. The Rock Chucker does a fine job in that regard.





Nicely finished case mouth.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I just loaded about 250 .223 rounds that I had trimmed using the Little Crow. Looking at the cannalure I can see they are very uniform. We will see how many times those cases can be reloaded before they need trimming again.

[Three44s]

Tater head,

A shoulder bump will give more consistency barring differences in individual case spring back.

An example is as I work through my pile of brass, I have LC ranging from recent years all the way back to 1967 and in between. Due to differing firing history and time, that’s a wide range in hardness.

Now if I was bench competing, I would never consider messing with so many outliers but I am a coyote hunter with occasional ground squirrels thrown in for practice.

In using the Wilson case holder I can feel and see the difference in degree in spring back with relatively recently made brass just from what it was fired in. Cases that are lubed the same, FL sized in the same die at the same adjustments moments apart, same year brass, yet the holder tells the story ........ some cases simply will not body size down as far as others.

If the body size variation is such, I have to assume the shoulder location has some variation as well.

In any case where these faster tools such as Little Crow are satisfying their owners needs then more power to them.

I am just contrasting strengths and possible issues.

Three44s

[Taterhead]

Tater head,

A shoulder bump will give more consistency barring differences in individual case spring back.

An example is as I work through my pile of brass, I have LC ranging from recent years all the way back to 1967 and in between. Due to differing firing history and time, that’s a wide range in hardness.

Now if I was bench competing, I would never consider messing with so many outliers but I am a coyote hunter with occasional ground squirrels thrown in for practice.

In using the Wilson case holder I can feel and see the difference in degree in spring back with relatively recently made brass just from what it was fired in. Cases that are lubed the same, FL sized in the same die at the same adjustments moments apart, same year brass, yet the holder tells the story ........ some cases simply will not body size down as far as others.

If the body size variation is such, I have to assume the shoulder location has some variation as well.

In any case where these faster tools such as Little Crow are satisfying their owners needs then more power to them.

I am just contrasting strengths and possible issues.

Three44s

My trim length variations are minimal, maybe 3 thou total variation on the extreme, even with the preponderance of range pickup brass. You are correct that it directly correlates to the degree of shoulder bump. As mentioned in my post, the Rock Chucker provides very consistent shoulder bumps even across many types of headstamps and number of times fired. That's why I size on the RC and not the progressive.

So I'm extremely happy with the procedure. The Tri-Way is so quick that everything is "trimmed". I used to do a sorting process for "needs to be trimmed" and "doesn't need to be trimmed". It's quicker to insert into the trimmer than to measure or gauge. The benefit is uniform lengths.

I highly recommend the Tri-Way for the cartridges with high volume.

[ih772]

Another vote for the Giraud Tri-Way trimmer! Trim, de-burr and chamfer in one step. I own three of them and they are well worth the price.

[Scrounge]

You know, that would sure put a hurt on an attacking speed boat in the Straights of Hormuz!

Three44s

16" South Bend...

Bill

[uscra112]

Just speaking as a retired automotive process control guy, we would NEVER have machined a feature using a datum that was not the datum in the drawing. Which in this case the shoulder is decidedly not. That tool may be quick, but it cannot be accurate.

[Taterhead]

Just speaking as a retired automotive process control guy, we would NEVER have machined a feature using a datum that was not the datum in the drawing. Which in this case the shoulder is decidedly not. That tool may be quick, but it cannot be accurate.

Have you measured cases coming out of a Giraud Trimmer? Well, the results speak for themselves.

Even my lathe-type trimmer has a bit of variability. The de-burring and chamferring process introduce introduce further length and case mouth variability. The Giraud controls the variability of chamfer inside and out, so that source of noise is eliminated.

If the headspace is consistent, the Giraud makes a very consistent case length and a square cut.

[Dieselhorses]

Tater head,

A shoulder bump will give more consistency barring differences in individual case spring back.

An example is as I work through my pile of brass, I have LC ranging from recent years all the way back to 1967 and in between. Due to differing firing history and time, that’s a wide range in hardness.

Now if I was bench competing, I would never consider messing with so many outliers but I am a coyote hunter with occasional ground squirrels thrown in for practice.

In using the Wilson case holder I can feel and see the difference in degree in spring back with relatively recently made brass just from what it was fired in. Cases that are lubed the same, FL sized in the same die at the same adjustments moments apart, same year brass, yet the holder tells the story ........ some cases simply will not body size down as far as others.

If the body size variation is such, I have to assume the shoulder location has some variation as well.

In any case where these faster tools such as Little Crow are satisfying their owners needs then more power to them.

I am just contrasting strengths and possible issues.

Three44s

If the shoulder springs back what do you think the neck is going to do? That's right- so measure from the head, and yes, you'll be good for a few days but go back and measure em again. 6 one way, half dozen the other way, you still might end up with a "baker's dozen"! But like you said, this only applies to that "unfamiliar/way back" brass. New or consistently shot brass in YOUR guns will most likely always fit the bill.

[Three44s]

Dieselhorses,

Until cases get fired in the same chamber after being fired in different ones their first firing, I have found there is variation between ones from the same headstamp including the same year of manufacture. Then when I group them to use in a particular rifle, those differences will abate themselves largely.

The trouble is I am a firm believer in inside flash hole deburring and that to be accurately accomplished requires a repeatable case length.

Once these reclaimed cases are through my gauntlet, they can drift some in length IMO, so long as max length is not exceeded and the brass and their rate of growth is consistent.

Best regards

Three44s

[358429]

Any suggestions on a trimmer for this?




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I don't have any gasoline powered saws, yet.

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[Three44s]

My trim length variations are minimal, maybe 3 thou total variation on the extreme, even with the preponderance of range pickup brass. You are correct that it directly correlates to the degree of shoulder bump. As mentioned in my post, the Rock Chucker provides very consistent shoulder bumps even across many types of headstamps and number of times fired. That's why I size on the RC and not the progressive.

So I'm extremely happy with the procedure. The Tri-Way is so quick that everything is "trimmed". I used to do a sorting process for "needs to be trimmed" and "doesn't need to be trimmed". It's quicker to insert into the trimmer than to measure or gauge. The benefit is uniform lengths.

I highly recommend the Tri-Way for the cartridges with high volume.

Taterhead,

I have to tell you, that three thou is a little outside of my comfort zone for using to index an inside flash hole debur tool. Now once cases settle down by being re-fired in the same rifle I would guess that indexing off the neck the consistency would improve and I would not be as concerned.

Everything else being equal, the Wilson trimmer gets about a half thou and the mouths are quite square.

The down side is that chamfering and deburring are separate OP’s. But a friend loaned me his Lyman prep center and that is a breeze. I am trying to finnish all that .223 before it has to go back home!

I think it’s great that the tool you write about gives you great service and we all have to realize that each of us have different goals and needs ...... what is right for one is not necessarily the best for another.

Best regards

Three44s

[Taterhead]

I don't have any gasoline powered saws, yet.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Taterhead,

I have to tell you, that three thou is a little outside of my comfort zone for using to index an inside flash hole debur tool. Now once cases settle down by being re-fired in the same rifle I would guess that indexing off the neck the consistency would improve and I would not be as concerned.

Everything else being equal, the Wilson trimmer gets about a half thou and the mouths are quite square.

The down side is that chamfering and deburring are separate OP’s. But a friend loaned me his Lyman prep center and that is a breeze. I am trying to finnish all that .223 before it has to go back home!

I think it’s great that the tool you write about gives you great service and we all have to realize that each of us have different goals and needs ...... what is right for one is not necessarily the best for another.

Best regards

Three44s

The lathe trimmers will cut more consistent lengths. No question. That's how I do my lower volume rifle brass. I have found that without a way to square the chamferring and de-burring tools concentrically with the case, and a way to dead stop the travel, those steps themselves induce variability in the chamfer,

-- both depth and angle. They too remove metal amd can induce variable case lengths and out-of-square case mouths.

3 thou extreme variability means trimming 1k in 1 hour and the min and max outlier will be at most 3 thou different. Most all being under 1 thou min to max. But your need to index off the case mouth might preclude the use of a tool like the Giraud.