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Thread: 45/70 bpc

  1. #1

    45/70 bpc

    Hi all,
    I decided to go with Swiss black powder. My shop has Swiss n.3 that I understand is FFG.
    Soon arrive to me the lee mold for 405 grains boolits, Iím going to cast with soft lead( used in my muzzleloader .58 cal) so could you confirm me that I can:
    Use 405grains boolit with 55 grains of BP, no gas checks, no corn wheat to full the brass, and large rifle magnum to detonate all that stuff!
    Iím shooting with my sharps pedersoli q down under 34í barrel
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Washington State
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    I’m no expert but definitely NO airspace between bullet base and powder column. Most use some type of wad material under bullet to protect the base.

  3. #3
    Ok, no airspace, I’m going to put some kind of cotton or similar or I have to put something hard of same dimension of the airspace like cork or similar?

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
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    12,774
    Here is how I would start. Prep brass. uniform primer pockets and flash holes, trim to uniform length deburr and chamfer, anneal.

    seat primer

    Find the charge weight that fills case to base of seated bullet. Drop in case with a drop rube and slow pour.

    One hard thick wad ( I use .060 Nappa rubber fiber gasket material for this in 45 cal) then 2 tracing paper wads ( these keep the heavy wad from sticking to bullet)

    Seat bullet by hand if possible if not then the seater die. I normally load around .005-.010 off the rifling for ease of loading.

    Work up from here in 2 grain increments

  5. #5
    Boolit Master




    Tar Heel's Avatar
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    Simply fill the case with black powder to the bottom of the bullet. I use a wax "milk carton" wad between the powder and the bullet. A 20:1 or 30:1 bullet alloy works very well. My favorite is 30:1 in the Sharps rifle. No need for a magnum primer. BP is easy to ignite. Some will say Magnum primer is best, some will say regular primer is the best. I don't shoot at a National or World competitive level so as long as my powder ignites, I have a large grin on my face. You can play with powder compression later. Read all you can on the subject and find the common points. Oh yea, use black powder bullet lube! To start out, use SPG lube or White's BP-01 lube. Later on you can play with making your own lube if you wish to.

    https://www.blackpowdercartridge.com...powder-charges


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Tar Heel; 06-17-2021 at 06:08 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    155

    bullet weight

    I have had 4 - 5 .45/70 rifles and none shot well with a 405 grain bullet, If possible go with 480 grain or more. The gun was designed for a 530 grain round nose bullet and black powder

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
    Ok, no airspace, Iím going to put some kind of cotton or similar or I have to put something hard of same dimension of the airspace like cork or similar?
    Which LEE 405 mold did you order?
    90374 ? (457-405-F) ? your Pedersoli will probably like a bigger diameter boolit (.459" better than .457") and because of the too small lube grooves you will need to clean between shots. It does not really carry enough lube for blackpowder - especially in a 34" barrel.

    90268? (459-405-HB) ? Is my favourite boolit for shorter ranges - I have an 1876 Uberti 45/75, a 1886 Chiappa 45/70, and an old IAB Marcheno sharps 45/70, they all do well with that boolit out to 200yards - but I removed the hollow base so it handles wads better. This boolit hauls a nice load of lube - nice big lube grooves, its a great blackpowder design

    Try that one without wad first - a thinner wad on this one (milk carton or juice box) will tend to distort into the hollow base divot and defeats the purpose

    If you use a wad under that LEE 405 Hollow base boolit it needs to be a solid wad 40thou minimum - so - heavy compressed card (tablet backing) , gasket material , or polyethelyene, (I use 45 thou HDPE I cut from used 10 litre water jugs - but I also modified it so its flat base )
    Last edited by indian joe; 06-17-2021 at 08:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Back from the range: my sharps liked a lot my charges!
    Soft lead 320 grains casted by me, 50grains of vitavhuori n140 (20rounds) and 48 grains of vitavhuori n130, gas checks hornady, lube lee aloy, normal large rifle primer.
    Shooting at 200mt with on a standard pistol 25mt target, all holes on 10/9/8!
    No leading inside barrel, cleaned in 10 minutes, sometimes “old” rifles are not picky, they shoot well with nothing “professional”. Obviously just for fun, not to compete
    Thanks for your answers btw!
    That’s a super forum!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
    Back from the range: my sharps liked a lot my charges!
    Soft lead 320 grains casted by me, 50grains of vitavhuori n140 (20rounds) and 48 grains of vitavhuori n130, gas checks hornady, lube lee aloy, normal large rifle primer.
    Shooting at 200mt with on a standard pistol 25mt target, all holes on 10/9/8!
    No leading inside barrel, cleaned in 10 minutes, sometimes “old” rifles are not picky, they shoot well with nothing “professional”. Obviously just for fun, not to compete
    Thanks for your answers btw!
    That’s a super forum!
    so ya scammed us ! hope that was fun

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Apr 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
    Ok, no airspace, I’m going to put some kind of cotton or similar or I have to put something hard of same dimension of the airspace like cork or similar?
    Absolutely not ,see Larry Gibsons sticky on dacron and pay attention , he is an authority on fillers (when to use) and why ! It is simple and to the point, don't follow and you will pay for it big time .I have and it is a perfect solution when you follow the rules , don"t and then I get to tell you I told you so!/Ed

  11. #11
    Boolit Master




    Tar Heel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    so ya scammed us ! hope that was fun
    Apparently vitavhuori is black.

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    Mesa, AZ
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    DITTO to Tar Heel and indian joe.

    Most of us don't come to the Black Powder Cartridge section of Castboolits to hear about someone's smokeless powder loads. They have the whole rest of the forum to post that stuff. Good grief!

    Dave

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    western ny
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    You can get a lot more than 55 grains in a 45-70. I think 55 grains is a real anemic load. Just my opinion . NOt trying to be offensive.
    Its not hard to get a lot more in the case. You just need a drop tube and a powder compression die. I haven't done it in a long time but I remember I used to load 68-70 grains Goex FFG with that method. I also used a much longer heavier bullet. A 535 grain Lyman Postell I cast from 20-1 lead. I learned how to do it by reading at the Shiloh Arms forum. There is so much BPCR knowledge there it's hard not to learn something.
    Good luck those rifles are stunningly accurate and a bunch of fun to shoot.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    DITTO to Tar Heel and indian joe.

    Most of us don't come to the Black Powder Cartridge section of Castboolits to hear about someone's smokeless powder loads. They have the whole rest of the forum to post that stuff. Good grief!

    Dave
    I’m sorry, I have not understood well. I’m Italian and not so good and used to English neither to write in that language on forums, and probably I have misunderstood the forum
    Section and stuff. I read cartridge and I wrote. Now reading better I understand that bpc means black powder cartridge, so not smokeless. I will repost that on right section! I also find out that vitavhuori powders are not so common there like here.
    I’ll write here next month when my Swiss n.3 (FFG) will arrive at my gunshop. I will use the classic military load 405 boolit 55 grains of BP nothing in between ( assuming 55 grains of BP will touch the bullet base) but with magnum primer to be sure all powder burns out correctly.
    Again, sorry for this huge off topic.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    With your pederdsolis barrel twist of 1-18 the short 405 grain bullet may not be the best choice. My Pedersoli long range target with 34" half round barrel does well with the 500 grain lyman better with the 535 lyman postel and best with a 550 grn silhouette by old west moulds.

    I understand while the government load with the 405 grn didnt use fillers or wads per say there was a card board tube inserted in the case below the bullet to lower case volume.

  16. #16
    I understand that is mandatory that no space between black powder and bullet. I assume then that if with 55 grains even not compressed the bullet seat above the powder I’m ok as no space in between. If some space results I have to eliminate that space with more powder or something else.
    I will, as a try, to lightly grease the bullet bottom to check when powder will stick on the bottom. When this happens I’ve found the right amount to be safe. So I can check the accuracy of that load if good or if I have to change.
    I had bad experience with fillers and where’s possible I prefer avoid that.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
    I’m sorry, I have not understood well. I’m Italian and not so good and used to English neither to write in that language on forums, and probably I have misunderstood the forum
    Section and stuff. I read cartridge and I wrote. Now reading better I understand that bpc means black powder cartridge, so not smokeless. I will repost that on right section! I also find out that vitavhuori powders are not so common there like here.
    I’ll write here next month when my Swiss n.3 (FFG) will arrive at my gunshop. I will use the classic military load 405 boolit 55 grains of BP nothing in between ( assuming 55 grains of BP will touch the bullet base) but with magnum primer to be sure all powder burns out correctly.
    Again, sorry for this huge off topic.
    I apologise for being suspicious, we have had a few "trolls"

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
    I understand that is mandatory that no space between black powder and bullet. I assume then that if with 55 grains even not compressed the bullet seat above the powder Iím ok as no space in between. If some space results I have to eliminate that space with more powder or something else.
    I will, as a try, to lightly grease the bullet bottom to check when powder will stick on the bottom. When this happens Iíve found the right amount to be safe. So I can check the accuracy of that load if good or if I have to change.
    I had bad experience with fillers and whereís possible I prefer avoid that.

    I agree with you about fillers - avoid where possible is a good idea

    Blackpowder ? I am usually trying to get a little extra in the case -

    63 to 67 grains under the 405 LEE seems to be about what fits.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    976
    I shoot hand cast lead 500 GR, bullets in mine. not a problem. I use drier lint or rag wool on top of the powder, to the base of the bullet. no card or grease cookie.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check