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Thread: Wrong Lyman Top Punch in the package - what to do?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Jul 2019
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    9

    Wrong Lyman Top Punch in the package - what to do?

    Hello all,
    I have been a member here for some time but this is my first post. Thanks in advance for your advice.
    I ordered a Lyman #421 top punch from an Amazon seller. The package arrived today. It was indeed a package for a Lyman #421, Lyman item no. 2786729. But when I opened the factory packaging and looked at the punch, it has "649" etched on the side of it, indicating the punch itself is a Lyman #649, Lyman item no. 2786778. It looks like it'd be pretty close to fitting the nose of the #429421 boolit I bought it for, but regardless, it is not the punch Lyman recommends. I have sent the seller a "what should we do about this?" message, and figure to call Lyman themselves tomorrow.

    Am I just spinning my wheels and is the 649 close enough to work fine with that boolit? I just feel like I should get the product I bought, and it looks like this problem goes back to the packaging at the factory, and not with the Amazon seller.

    Any advice?
    Thanks,
    Rex

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Amazon will fix you up. Don't suffer with something you don't want.

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Iowa Fox is correct. I received an opened electronic item from Amazon, sent them an email and it was promptly replaced.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
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    Take the punch you were sent .
    Mix up some J-B Weld Epoxy ( glue or any brand) better yet epoxy putty or in a pinch some hot glue that sets hard .
    Fill the punch cavity , let glue set , sand flat .
    Now you have a flat nose punch and can seat any boolit with a flat spot on it . WC , SWC , RF . FN , WFN ...you can seat them all and truth be told you can even seat RN if you insert them in the case straight .
    You can also custom fit almost fitting nose punches to boolits with epoxy ... I like to use epoxy putty ...it doesn't run or drip . Clean the punch cavity but wax or grease the boolit ...release agent ! You don't want to epoxy the boolit into the nose punch ...just fit it .

    Everything will be just fine ... if amazon sends a new one ...you will have two and you will find a flat nose punch most useful !
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    I sent in a return request this morning and Amazon has already refunded my money. They sent me a return label and I put the item in the mailbox today.
    I ordered a new 421 top punch from Graf's (for $6 less) and it'll be here soon.

    Thanks for all the help,
    Rex

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Welcome to the Forums! Good question. Good post. Don't let it be your last...and my prediction is, with this predilection to cast boolits, it won't.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Oct 2009
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    Tennessee
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    Grind it off flat and use it as a flat point top punch. I use one for ALL flat point bullets.
    Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity is the name of the game.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


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    They'll straighten it out but I use a flat TP for the 421 anyway. Works better than trying to fit the nose and get a "ring around the collar"./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
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    367
    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    Take the punch you were sent .
    Mix up some J-B Weld Epoxy ( glue or any brand) better yet epoxy putty or in a pinch some hot glue that sets hard .
    Fill the punch cavity , let glue set , sand flat .
    Now you have a flat nose punch and can seat any boolit with a flat spot on it . WC , SWC , RF . FN , WFN ...you can seat them all and truth be told you can even seat RN if you insert them in the case straight .
    You can also custom fit almost fitting nose punches to boolits with epoxy ... I like to use epoxy putty ...it doesn't run or drip . Clean the punch cavity but wax or grease the boolit ...release agent ! You don't want to epoxy the boolit into the nose punch ...just fit it .

    Everything will be just fine ... if amazon sends a new one ...you will have two and you will find a flat nose punch most useful !
    Gary
    +1 from here

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    9
    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    Take the punch you were sent .
    Mix up some J-B Weld Epoxy ( glue or any brand) better yet epoxy putty or in a pinch some hot glue that sets hard .
    Fill the punch cavity , let glue set , sand flat .
    Now you have a flat nose punch and can seat any boolit with a flat spot on it . WC , SWC , RF . FN , WFN ...you can seat them all and truth be told you can even seat RN if you insert them in the case straight .
    You can also custom fit almost fitting nose punches to boolits with epoxy ... I like to use epoxy putty ...it doesn't run or drip . Clean the punch cavity but wax or grease the boolit ...release agent ! You don't want to epoxy the boolit into the nose punch ...just fit it .

    Everything will be just fine ... if amazon sends a new one ...you will have two and you will find a flat nose punch most useful !
    Gary
    Well, everything is fixed from my OP, as I got my refund and have received the other #421 top punch I ordered from Grafs. But now I am confused. I understand making flat-bottomed top punch to use for sizing in the Lyman 450. But what is this about seating boolits with a top punch? Is that just a misspeak? Since there is a reference to "insert them in the case straight" it looks like you do actually mean using the top punch for seating. How is this done?

    Thanks,
    Rex

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Sizer/top punches are for bullet sizing presses, seating punches are for seating dies; they're wholly different things.

    Bullet profiles vary a lot so die seating punches aren't always a perfect fit and that sometimes causes a tiny "ring around around the collar" on the seated bullet ogive. The ring itself is harmless but it drives some people nuts.

    Starting bullets into a case straight requires the bullet heel to be sitting in perfect alignment before the bullet is pressed into the case. Most seating dies throats and punches are to loosely fitted to do that well. Once a bullet starts to enter slanted no small amounts of "stop-rotate-go" can correct it so perfect starts are our goal. Belling/flairing case mouths enough allow the entire bullet heel to sit inside the belling before pushing it deeper is the best we can do with common dies.

    No matter any "Competition" or "B.R." label stamped into common screw-in dies, the ONLY threaded seating dies that have full case length sleeves that insure good, if not perfect, bullet alignment are Redding and Forster.

    Micrometer adjustment seater stems make it easy to adjust seating depth. The stems are costly and look impressive but they add nothing at all to concentric seating.

    All that said, reloading perfection can't be bought by spending more money on tools. Component selection, case preparation, load development and shooting skills MUST be part of the total effort before any tools can matter very much.

    A reloader who knows what he needs to do and how to do it can do very good work with most common dies and any press but a loading dofus who doesn't understand why and how to do every step of his work can't get very good results no matter how much money he throws onto his bench!

  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    Jul 2019
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    Thanks 1hole - lots of good info there. But unrelated to my question.
    I'll just take it as highly likely that the answer to "is gwpercle saying he somehow uses a top punch to seat bullets?" is "no."

    Cheers,
    Rex

    EDIT: I really appreciate all the suggestions and responses. I will definitely try out the JB weld in the cavity to make a pure flat-bottomed top punch to use on all the flat pointed bullets. Original problem is solved also. Thanks again!
    Last edited by TRexF16; 06-27-2021 at 03:56 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Bullet profiles vary a lot so die seating punches aren't always a perfect fit and that sometimes causes a tiny "ring around around the collar" on the seated bullet ogive. The ring itself is harmless but it drives some people nuts.
    I have been wondering (driving myself nuts) about this and am GLAD to hear it is a big Nothing Burger.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRexF16 View Post
    I sent in a return request this morning and Amazon has already refunded my money. They sent me a return label and I put the item in the mailbox today.
    I ordered a new 421 top punch from Graf's (for $6 less) and it'll be here soon.

    Thanks for all the help,
    Rex
    You could have custom fitted it with epoxy or made it into a flat punch ... file that info away and next time you wont have to wait on all the returns .
    For a temporary custom fit or flat punch conversion ...use hot glue . Hot glue is easy to remove when you are done using it .
    You could be reloading instead of waiting on the mail-person to arrive .
    I know some people don't like to do it the easy way but I have several custom fitted punches and seating stems over 25 yeras old ...only those made with hot glue don't last a long time .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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