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Thread: Swage die value.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master 0verkill's Avatar
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    Swage die value.

    Pavogrande has some swage dies in 22 and 25. They're the old cannon breech RCBS. No punches, just the final swage dies. I'm trying to figure out what a fair price for the 25 is.

    They're old, which makes them neat.
    They're also old, and machining wasn't as precise back in the day.

    They're the cannon breech, which is neat.
    They're the cannon breech, which also leaves a ring around the ogive.

    Any help with opinions or what you've seen them sell for would be nice.

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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    I think I made this comment to Pavogrande a while back, too. The RCBS dies are so uncommon, and so little-known, that it can’t be said that there is a “market” for them. Anybody seriously interested in bullet swaging will buy a set based on the Biehler&Astles design. The few people interested in the history of bullet swaging, or the history of the RCBS company, regard them as interesting curios, but neither practical tools nor investment-grade historical artifacts. At least not yet. Maybe another fifty years or so. It is kind of ironic that the Rock Chuck Bullet Swage Company, which was launched for the purpose of making those dies, is now the RCBS Company, which makes everything for the handloader except bullet swage dies. They couldn’t make any money off them.

    The lack of punches means additional money must be spent to even see how the things worked, which eliminates that area of interest. The typical RCBS came with punches and a solid ram for the press with two adjustment screws to precisely position the punches under the die opening.

    25 years or so ago, I bought two RCBS .22 dies, with lots of punches, core swaging dies and ejector yokes (some of these maybe shopmade), each in a nice homemade wooden box, for $15 per box. A few years later, I bought a .25 caliber RCBS, with the punch and the solid ram, for $50 from the estate of a major RCBS loading equipment collector. That was the price set by collector friends of the family, and as far as I know, I was the only one who was interested. They were trying to help the widow unload the late lamented’s Stuff, and part of my motivation was sympathy.

    Back before the “collector-dealers” started to infest the gun shows (the ones who scrounge items cheep from other tables, mark them up, and sell them at their tables) I could occasionally find bullet swage die sets mixed in with miscellaneous loading dies. These could be in any condition from usable to relic, and if they were $25 or under, I would grab them up, just to study them.

    So I guess that’s the “market,” for what it’s worth. You might join up with ARTCA and put a For Sale ad in their newsletter and see what happens. I wrote up the RCBSs I have in one of the ARTCA Journals, to no major uptick in interest in the things from prospective collectors.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master 0verkill's Avatar
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    Thanks, that's not a lot of concrete prices, but something to go on. I've got a 22 set and like them, use them quite a bit. So $50 bucks a couple decades ago, with inflation the single die should be $50. Opinions on that would be welcome too. Already got the ram so then I've got to have a punch made at more than the cost of the die.
    If there's any old swage dies you don't use, have no collector value and you're done studying , pass them my way. Simpler the better for my gunsmith to copy. Gunsmith was a master machinist, so he can replicate anything, at $30 or so an hour, it adds up for a poor hillbilly like me though.

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    Boolit Master

    firefly1957's Avatar
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    By any chance do those dies look like these I have no idea who made them from a estate sale .224 "Click image for larger version. 

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    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

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    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    Those dies look more like the type used in a dedicated swaging press rather than a reloading press; maybe like a Mity-Mite or a variation. The die bodies go in the press ram and the punches screw into the threaded lug on the frame.

    Look over Corbin’s site; maybe there’s something there that resembles your set. Was there a little press at the sale that mounted flat on a bench, with a long lever and very short ram travel?

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    Boolit Master 0verkill's Avatar
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    Those are above my paygrade, but what Bent Ramrod said is better than I could have put it. I have a bunch of 17 dies I can't use right yet. Some look like that, some the die and punch are both 7/8x14 and some are tiny threaded shafts I think may have screwed into a larger die body.
    Anyway, other deal fell through, if yours were anything other than .224 I'd still make an offer. If you don't mind firefly1957, what kind of deal did you get on them?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    firefly1957's Avatar
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    Bent Ramrod They are specific to a Pacific press the ram came with they also but not the press . I happened to have a press just had to swap out ram .
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    firefly1957's Avatar
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    Overkill $10 in about 1990 it took a while to figure out how to use them the seller had no idea what they where.
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    Hey, Firefly, I was looking through my references and your set looks a lot like the drawing of the Pearson die set in the 1951 edition of The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy. However, the ejection cup is a feature of the picture of the Banta swage die set in the drawing of that set in the same book.

    The two threaded pieces are the core seating and point forming dies, which screw into a special press ram. The double ended rod piece has different size posts to fit the dies. The Pearson setup should have had a base with a thin rod that fit the bottom of the press ram to eject the bullet on the downstroke, so maybe your set is a later version of the Banta, with extra pieces for jacket forming. The ejector cup is certainly Banta, but according to Whelen’s description, the plunger die was a loose fit in the top of the press, and a coil spring was put around the plunger body so it could float to the point of least resistance, ie, the opening in the dies.

    Too bad most of these one-man die shops couldn’t afford stamps or roll markers. Once the boxes and instruction sheets were lost, it’s all a guess how to use the things and who made them.

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