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Thread: .577-.450 Martini-Henry loads. Pached & unpatched

  1. #21
    Boolit Mold
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    The MH patch template links seem to be dead.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanghai Jack View Post
    Just out of curiosity - is your snider part of the Nepali cache? Some of them look like they were chambered with a corn cob.
    No, mine is one of the late purpose built British ones. I annealed the cases prior to forming and don't generally size paper patch cases unless I acquire some fired in other rifles and they will not fit mine or the chamber neck is so large it prevents the use of the proper size bullet. The more recent CBC cases are very thin and I wonder if they changed their brass formula so they are more brittle or perhaps I just got some bad ones. I have 100 older CBC Berdan primed cases that I have loaded many times with black powder, for other guns, and have had no problems.
    BIG OR SMALL I LIKE THEM ALL, 577 TO 22 HORNET.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Im surprised you had trouble with CBC/Magtech cases......I have 100 converted from when they changed over to boxer primers (have CBC berdans ,too)....and have never had any problem....and they have been reloaded over 100 times each .....in fact ,the only losses Ive had are people at the range with sticky fingers......So far a few have loose primer pockets ,which I can seat with finger pressure......but the primers dont fall out after firing.......I never resize the cases ,in fact I dont have dies ,and use a home made set with a shell holder of correct rim shape to suit the shotgun rims of the CBC cases.,and a neck size that barely touches the fired neck ...I use paper patched bullets ,and they are correct size to hold in fired cases.......IMHO ,the main cause of case problems is use of the Lee dies for FLS every reload.
    Agree with that last sentence - I like LEE stuff specially the price but their FLS dies seem too savage on brass to me.
    edit further explanation - that was a general comment not specific to the MH
    Last edited by indian joe; 06-22-2021 at 09:51 AM.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    The explanation Ive seen is that Lee dimensioned the die to the smallest chamber they could find in a 577/450.......anyway,IMHO ,the biggest fault it has is the neck is too small.....and added to that ,there is a ledge at the end of the neck.........Its my observation that some of the case collapses happen when the sized case contacts this ledge .....As to neck size .....every rifle Ive ever owned could take a neck that was .510" OD ...the British rifles are very uniform to neck dimensions ,and necks always taper slightly from .510" at the throat to .513 " at the shoulder.........Ive noticed forming cases ,if the neck is left .520" at final size ,about half the force is needed as to size down to .480",which is the Lee die......And this is where the collapses happen ,and the case folds.

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy

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    I assume the draught excluder is Aussie for "pool noodle" or maybe dacron puff ect. where are the case splits showing up, in the neck or longitudinal on the body?? How far down do you anneal? My heat line is generally at or just below the shoulder, and I have gotten a few splits in the body starting .500 above the rim going up to varying lengths. I have settled on the LEE 400 gr, lubed 480 Ruger, slug at .472+ , or about .005 below as cast.

  6. #26
    Moderator / Master Tool & Die Maker


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    Quote Originally Posted by mgreg71 View Post
    Does anyone out there have a martini Henry paper patch template available?
    Something like these? Designed for a 0.450" diameter bullet, based off of originals.

    RRR

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "I Make the part.............................that makes the parts"

    Looking for Bullet Mould Handles, Heavy Duty Replacement Sprue Plates, Adjustable Paper Patch Bullet Moulds? Check here:http://www.kal.castpics.net/

    My Feedback!

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Red-River-Rick

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Its called locally "Foam backer rod",and comes in either open or closed cell foam,and polyU or polyE......some is expensive ,some comes in 100yd roll....."so ya pays yer money and takes yer chances"

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    Do you have a cat?
    Especially a medium or long fur cat?
    If so, bush your cat, and save the hair, it makes wonderful case filler for all black powder cartridges, when you are using smokeless powder.
    Load the powder, then insert a tuff of the cat hair and seat your bullet.
    I picked up this tip 60 years ago when I was getting started reloading black powder cartridges from a old hand rifle shooter, who shot those long range buffalo rifle matches.
    And no, it does not skink like burnt hair upon firing, as the high temperature of the smokeless powder combusting reduces the hair to ask before the bullet leaves the muzzle.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
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    I shoot MH and especially Sniders using reformed 24 ga boxer primed CBC brass. Works great, no problems at all with split cases. Like everybody else, I only FL resize cases that absolutely will not fit otherwise.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    L-R MH 480 gr Buffalo Arms swaged Pb pp to .472",
    MH 410 gr XRing GG bullet .470";
    MH 410 gr XRing GG bullet seated a bit deeper;
    Snider 520 gr XRing .600";
    Snider 440 gr XRing .600".
    All lubed with SPG, all have a milk carton wad, then a foam backer rod as filler, over the powder. The PP MH round also has a 1/4" SPG lube cookie below the bullet, but in the neck.
    Last edited by fgd135; 06-27-2021 at 12:54 PM.

  10. #30
    Boolit Mold
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    Good info

    Thanks for the load info. I have an x-ring order in the works already.

  11. #31
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgd135 View Post
    I shoot MH and especially Sniders using reformed 24 ga boxer primed CBC brass. Works great, no problems at all with split cases. Like everybody else, I only FL resize cases that absolutely will not fit otherwise.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BPCR2.jpg 
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ID:	285236
    L-R MH 480 gr Buffalo Arms swaged Pb pp to .472",
    MH 410 gr XRing GG bullet .470";
    MH 410 gr XRing GG bullet seated a bit deeper;
    Snider 520 gr XRing .600";
    Snider 440 gr XRing .600".
    All lubed with SPG, all have a milk carton wad, then a foam backer rod as filler, over the powder. The PP MH round also has a 1/4" SPG lube cookie below the bullet, but in the neck.
    Do you use cornmeal filler in your period 577 rounds?

  12. #32
    Boolit Mold
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    Does everyone use large pistol primers in their MH & .577 rounds? Or are there other substitutes available to do the job, or better?

  13. #33
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgd135 View Post
    I shoot MH and especially Sniders using reformed 24 ga boxer primed CBC brass. Works great, no problems at all with split cases. Like everybody else, I only FL resize cases that absolutely will not fit otherwise.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BPCR2.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	107.2 KB 
ID:	285236
    L-R MH 480 gr Buffalo Arms swaged Pb pp to .472",
    MH 410 gr XRing GG bullet .470";
    MH 410 gr XRing GG bullet seated a bit deeper;
    Snider 520 gr XRing .600";
    Snider 440 gr XRing .600".
    All lubed with SPG, all have a milk carton wad, then a foam backer rod as filler, over the powder. The PP MH round also has a 1/4" SPG lube cookie below the bullet, but in the neck.
    Whats your powder load with the listed rounds?

  14. #34
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgd135 View Post
    I shoot MH and especially Sniders using reformed 24 ga boxer primed CBC brass. Works great, no problems at all with split cases. Like everybody else, I only FL resize cases that absolutely will not fit otherwise.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BPCR2.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	107.2 KB 
ID:	285236
    L-R MH 480 gr Buffalo Arms swaged Pb pp to .472",
    MH 410 gr XRing GG bullet .470";
    MH 410 gr XRing GG bullet seated a bit deeper;
    Snider 520 gr XRing .600";
    Snider 440 gr XRing .600".
    All lubed with SPG, all have a milk carton wad, then a foam backer rod as filler, over the powder. The PP MH round also has a 1/4" SPG lube cookie below the bullet, but in the neck.
    Is there a need to worry about the jump space in the chamber for the deeper seated rounds on the MH?

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy
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    Just for accuracy, it is best to use the larger bullets seated well out to almost contact the rifling. And heavier bullets usually shoot better, within the limitations of the barrel twist of course (which relates to bullet length). And as to those pistol primers, simple: that's what the CBC brass is set up for, rifle primers stand slightly proud.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgreg71 View Post
    Whats your powder load with the listed rounds?
    With the MH 480 gr bullet, I shoot full charges 85 gr of Goex 1Fg, and also reduced charges of the same, depending on the range I'm planning to shoot. Heresy to some, but there's no reason to destroy your shoulder while shooting at only 100 yards. 65-70 grains work well for that.
    Carbine loads (410 gr) are 60-70 grains of Goex 1Fg. As MB mentions, the bullet seated further out is indeed more accurate.
    Snider 520 gr. bullet 70 grains of Goex 1Fg, and I have used cream of wheat instead of FBR, at times. I find no accuracy difference, but you might.
    440 gr Snider shoots well at reduced ranges, up to 100 yards, with 50-55 grains of Goex 1 Fg, or 2Fg.

  17. #37
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    Work with Martyn. He can steer you in the right direction. I buy .577/450 brass from him and .577 Snyder. Always the best quality and a very nice guy to talk to. You can never go wrong.

  18. #38
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by DxieLandMan View Post
    Work with Martyn. He can steer you in the right direction. I buy .577/450 brass from him and .577 Snyder. Always the best quality and a very nice guy to talk to. You can never go wrong.
    I’m already working with him. I put in an order for Brass and a mold about a month ago. Does anyone have an opinion on Pyrodex versus black powder?

  19. #39
    Boolit Man R-71's Avatar
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    Unless you absolutely have to use Pyrodex, avoid it!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check