Numerich Arms H&A underhammer

[dondiego]

Sounds like you knew them personally. I was aware of Mike's military vehicle collection and he once took my father and I into his CW Rifle collection room! I had never seen anything like that! I own one of Mike's Smith Carbine's. It is an excellent example. I sure miss that little store off the side of his business in Dundee!

[OBCoal]

Nice rifle Bedbugbilly , my stock is cracked in the same way. I bought a bore scope to look into the barrel and didn't like what I found, pitted gouge marks like someone ran a steel rod down it, has a spot where the patch snags, thinking I may have to get a new barrel unless there is a way to save it. and lots of rust

[John Taylor]

Under hammers are fun. This is a little 32 that I made about 20 years ago.

[OBCoal]

Got the most of the rust out and took some more pics,not looking good. BTW that is a fine looking rifle Mr. Taylor.

[John Taylor]

Got the most of the rust out and took some more pics,not looking good. BTW that is a fine looking rifle Mr. Taylor.

Thank you. I have been building under hammers for many years as a hobby. Most of them get sold along the way. The one pictured is in my oldest daughters hands now. A 72 cal. under hammer pistol was fun.

[John Taylor]

First time trying out the 72 caliber under hammer pistol. Round ball weighs 1 & 1/4 ounce. This pistol has Forsyth type rifling, very narrow lands and wide grooves. Pictured next to a 1911. The barrel was shortened about 4" after the picture, to barrel heavy.

[OBCoal]

I have decided to get a new barrel, the big question for me is how to do the breech plug, this rifle has the tapered pin holding the barrel on. Do I use the old and fit it to come out the same length or make a new one. I have no idea how they did it at the factory (drilling the tapered hole, was it installed in the barrel and attached to the frame and then drilled? ). Any insight or suggestions would be most appreciated. I have a lathe and mill, one other question is the nipple depth (mine is somewhat recessed in the barrel).

[Gunor]

Track of the Wolf has different length nipples for underhammer. Fit one based on wall thickness - maybe install flash guard.

[John Taylor]

I have decided to get a new barrel, the big question for me is how to do the breech plug, this rifle has the tapered pin holding the barrel on. Do I use the old and fit it to come out the same length or make a new one. I have no idea how they did it at the factory (drilling the tapered hole, was it installed in the barrel and attached to the frame and then drilled? ). Any insight or suggestions would be most appreciated. I have a lathe and mill, one other question is the nipple depth (mine is somewhat recessed in the barrel).

The taper pin is a standard taper pin size, I don't remember the number but I do have the reamer for it. Hard part is getting it so that it holds the barrel tight to the frame and still seals the breach. The plug is 5/8" diameter with fine thread ( I think 18 TPI ). Probably be best to fit the barrel to the action with the plug in the action so you can get a good fit. Having the barrel in the lathe and using lay out die to check for a good seal at the breach. After the barrel is fit to the action then the sight dovetails are cut and thimbles are installed. Drilling for the forearm pins will require a good drill press or mill to get the holes just right using a small end mill to cut into the octagon barrel at and angle to the flat on the barrel. Barrel needs to be clamped in a way that the forearm can be removed after lining up on the hole. The nipple hole is counter sunk on many of the H&As. The originals had an odd size nipple and I choose to do them in 1/4- 28 to take a standard nipple. Might try Jim Carpenter ( 208-582-2091 ) for a barrel, he does custom barrel work for muzzle loaders at a good price.

[2152hq]

Under hammers are fun. This is a little 32 that I made about 20 years ago.

Are those the ones you made the frame by bending a solid piece of bronze round stock in a press you made?
Pretty little rifles. Simple is nice!

[OBCoal]

Thanks John for the info. That pistol sure is nice, I would bet that its a handful when fired.

[John Taylor]

Are those the ones you made the frame by bending a solid piece of bronze round stock in a press you made?
Pretty little rifles. Simple is nice!

Brass or steel frame, bore a hole, bend and machine for hammer and trigger. Three sizes, 1", 1.125" and 1.250". Hammer and trigger are the same ones used in the H&A. Started making them when I didn't have enough money to buy one.

[John Taylor]

Thanks John for the info. That pistol sure is nice, I would bet that its a handful when fired.

With 30 - 40 grains it's not bad. A 12 gauge load would be closer to 80 grains and I don't want to try it. Years ago I made another one and was using a hollow base wad cutter that weighed close to 700 grains, with 45 grains of powder it kicked hard but it put nice 3/4" hole in the target.

[yeahbub]

I had gotten an H&A underhammer from Deer Creek some years ago, but the breech plug shank was never less than a bit wobbly. Accuracy was less than precise in my experience. Anybody else notice this?

The hole was .625, so I looked up the closest thread which would work, jigged up the receiver, trued the face square to the hole and tapped the hole 3/4-10. The barrels were breeched up so that there was still a .005" gap between the shoulder of my over-large round stock and the end of the barrel when torqued in tight, assuring a tight seal at the breech end of the of the rifling, no openings or leaks to the threads. I turned breech plugs for them, threaded them 3/4-10 and skinned the shoulder back until they were ~1/4 turn from having the sights vertical so they'd be tight in the receiver when correctly positioned. The oversize OD was milled off octagon to match the barrel flats, so now I had barrels I could screw into the receiver which would be repeatably positioned to a witness mark on the receiver face and remain there. This fixed the accuracy issues. The .40 cal fast twist is particularly accurate with 330gr paper patched boolits. To prevent gas erosion issues in the nipple, I used an Accra-Shot "nipple" which uses a small primer.

[1Hawkeye]

I had 2 of the deer creek kits and got actions with buttocks to build a couple of .50 cal benchrest guns with. Never had a problem with any of them flopping around. Deer creeks 3 set screws to hold the barrel in place was much better than the tapered pins used in the H&A guns.

[Hanshi]

I ordered a Heritage Model .45 many decades ago and killed bobcats, deer and squirrels with it. I simply bonded with that rifle and think of it as an old partner. But a few years ago problems started with the trigger not returning after cocking or firing. The big TG spring which serves as the trigger spring, hammer spring had a tab that functioned as the trigger return spring. That tab died and instead of being "springy" it bent when the trigger was pulled. The trigger then had to be pushed back into battery manually. This rendered the rifle unsafe to use, IMO, so I put it up on display. I tried to find a spring to replace the malfunctioning one for years without any luck. So until I cobble up a way for the trigger to return to battery it shall remain a wall hanger. Finding good parts for old guns is mostly impossible and sol for my H&A.

[John Taylor]

I ordered a Heritage Model .45 many decades ago and killed bobcats, deer and squirrels with it. I simply bonded with that rifle and think of it as an old partner. But a few years ago problems started with the trigger not returning after cocking or firing. The big TG spring which serves as the trigger spring, hammer spring had a tab that functioned as the trigger return spring. That tab died and instead of being "springy" it bent when the trigger was pulled. The trigger then had to be pushed back into battery manually. This rendered the rifle unsafe to use, IMO, so I put it up on display. I tried to find a spring to replace the malfunctioning one for years without any luck. So until I cobble up a way for the trigger to return to battery it shall remain a wall hanger. Finding good parts for old guns is mostly impossible and sol for my H&A.

There are a couple ways to fix the trigger spring. A piece of piano wire under the hammer spring screw will work. I did several with a screw that could be used as a trigger stop with a small coil spring around it. The stop would stop the trigger travel as soon as the hammer was released. I made the screw from 1/8" welding rod with no head, drilled and tapped the frame to line up with the trigger. This will not work on the models made from thin wall tube. The later triggers had a slot cut through the pivot hole for a spring that wend around the pivot screw.

[bob208]

I have 6 of them. been using them in matches for 30 years .

[OBCoal]

Ordered a new barrel from Pecatonica River should get here some time next week. The taper pin is not exactly on the center line of the frame so I might have the holes welded up and just use set screws seems like an easier fix.

[Jedman]

I wish the name Numerich , would go away. The company’s name is Numrich. For years on different forums I see it spelled Numerich or Numerick and it drives me �� how this happened nobody knows but it keeps going.
Sorry for the rant .

Jedman