My understanding is that the old, original Hoppes #9 was a good bore cleaner because it contained, among other things, nitrobenzene. I also understand the nb was removed because of health hazards and that the current Hoppes formulation is not as effective as the original.
Question: I have a supply of nitroMETHANE, which I realize is not the same as nitrobenzene. Would the addition of nitromethane to the current Hoppes #9 enhance its cleaning ability for rifle bores?
Definitely not a true chemist but the benzene would be more of a lubricant - the methane a solvent. Not to say that wouldn't be a benefit at all.
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The first concern that I would have is an increased flammability issue. Nitromethane has a flashpoint of 95F. The flashpoint of nitrobenzene is 190F. Hoppes #9 has a flashpoint of about 55F. Adding NM to Hoppes#9 should not increase the flammability. As a comparison, gasoline has a flashpoint of about -50F.
However, Nitromethane is a relatively acidic carbon acid. You may end up taking out materials that you do not want to remove. Since Hoppes #9 contains a small amount of Ammonium Hydroxide, I expect the solution to be slightly basic or neutral at worst. Depending on how much NM is added to the Hoppes #9, you could turn it into a material that is somewhat corrosive to steel. Just my thoughts. Others may have different opinions.
I can remember Hoppe's being referred to as "nitrobenzene and banana oil". Also remember nitrobenzene being referred to as carcinogen. Don't go there. Got a feeling that the current formulation of Hoppe's uses kerosene, and a couple of other things that Outpost 75 is very familiar with.
The Hoppes #9 SDS says the following is in the solvent mixture.
Acetone
Ethanol
Kerosene
Oleic Acid
Propane
N-Butane
N-Amyl Acetate
Isobutane
Citronella
I would say |Hoppe's went to great trouble to make a new bore solvent that smelled like #9. Still call it #9, though, don't they.Originally Posted by Pirate69
Now it can be sold in Californistan!
" Associate with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation: for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " George Washington
Pirate, thanks for that explanation. I've never actually compared the old and new Hoppes #9 to see how much better, if any, the old formula worked for cleaning barrels.
If the old formula was, in fact, more effective because of the nitrobenzene, why exactly did the nitrobenzene make it better? Is NB a copper solvent, lead solvent, or ???
Nitrobenzene was most likely added to enhance the smell. It’s use as a solvent is very limited. Since it is a known health risk the idea that the old Hoppes is better than the new is just silly fireside fodder. Amyl acetate (aka banana oil) is an excellent solvent for lacquer (often used on bullets) Acetone is an excellent solvent for unburned smokeless powder (nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin) The other solvents ethanol, kerosene, propane, n-butane, isobutane would handle any other foreign substances but more importantly adjust the flash point. Amyl acetate is a thick oil and would hang around too long. The ideal cleaning solution needs to hang around long enough to do the cleaning and then dry clean. The oleac acid is added to make the solution slightly acidic. A basic solution would be slightly caustic, especially towards aluminum frames. Citronella is added just to enhance the smell.
Adding Nitromethane would be detrimental. It would decrease the flash point and would cause the solution to “vape off” too fast and would provide no additional cleaning benefit.
When I was about 8-10 my father and grandfather would clean/oil their old single shot Iver Johnson and J.C. Higgins 20 gauges the evening before squirrel season opened. The delightful banana oil smell of Hoppe's #9 came to mean hunting season to me. Now, after 70 years, it still does.
Alas, all of my older relatives have passed so my turn is next. But, if heaven is as good as I hope it will be, I'll happily get to go squirrel hunting with them around the north Florida swamps again, after we have cleaned our inexpensive old shotguns guns on the back porch with the lovely smell of original Hoppe's #9 floating in the air.
[One of the dozens of reasons I despise government bureaucrats is how happy they are to solve non-existent problems by removing dastardly products that scare them from the market.]
A little neuro anatomy and psychology...there are direct neural pathways between the olfactory bulbs and hippocampus that feed back to the temporal lobes. So who gives a rat's ass? We're talking about hoppes #9 here! Well...maybe it's not true for anyone else but the smell of hoppes#9 takes me back to a better place. Very soothing and emotionally gratifying, makes me want to tell stories about WW1 veterans I knew and other things from my childhood when the end of most days involved gun cleaning and the smell of hoppes #9. I really find it hard to beat Ed's red as a solvent, I add a bit more acetone and it takes all of the plastic fouling out of shotgun bores but lately I have added just enough Hoppes #9 to bring back that old and mellow feeling when things were right. I guess I could get some iso amyl acetate and add that but there's something else in Hoppes that pushes that button! This is not addiction, huffing or physiologic dependance. It is temporal lobe pleasure, just that simple!
...Cutting oil, the best ever, finely scented, Chesterton brand: worked like a champ on lathe and other machine tools. he certainly had an edge over the others. if you weren't careful, it knocked you unconscious, but killed cockroaches with a single drop
...prohibited today and nowhere to be found here_ of course
Food is overrated. A nice rifle is way more important.
Rob
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