Pre-'64 Model 70s

[richhodg66]

I know they really aren't any better than a lot of rifles and likely do not live up to the hype, but i want one and for the past year or two that want has grown. I've had quite a few of the post 64s, including bot push feed and controlled feed versions, fine rifles.

My preference would be a .30-06 for a lot of reasons, but after that, something kind of unusual would be cool (never been much of a .270 fan). Saw one a year or two back at a gun show in Wichita in 7x57 when money was a bit tight, been watching for it to come back, I don't think it sold. I'll sell a kidney next time to get it if I see it again.

anyway, one turned up at a gun show yesterday in .220 Swift for $650 and was in decent shape though not pristine and the iron sights were missing. The Swift is one I don't have dies or brass for, and since it had the rep as a barrel burner, I decided to pass, but am wondering if I should run back and get it today. I really have too many things to get around to now, and one in something a bit more cast friendly would be better. Not sure.

Most likely I'll hold off, but you don't see them much without someone thinking they have a solid gold rifle anymore.

[1hole]

The Swift was hard on barrels for those who shot a lot of five hole groups just to see holes appear in sheets of paper. For those who used it as a walking varminter got some pretty good life out of their barrels.

Winchester and 1964 ... that is quite a story. Bottom line, the post 64s were "better rifles" as hunting tools but they weren't as beautifully made. Winchester had allowed their unions to get so costly that buying replacements for old, badly worn machine tools so they gave the line assembliers a bunch parts and hand files and said "Make 'em fit". That worked for a while but the prices went up too far for them to compete with Remington and Savage.

So, Win's engineers made some good design changes that allowed lower cost production. The new free floated barrels of better quality tended to produce better accuracy but the new guns weren't as petty as the near custom fitted old guns so sales dropped - a lot - and, as good as the current crop is, they've never caught up.

Such is life.

[murf205]

The Swift was hard on barrels for those who shot a lot of five hole groups just to see holes appear in sheets of paper. For those who used it as a walking varminter got some pretty good life out of their barrels.

Winchester and 1964 ... that is quite a story. Bottom line, the post 64s were "better rifles" as hunting tools but they weren't as beautifully made. Winchester had allowed their unions to get so costly that buying replacements for old, badly worn machine tools so they gave the line assembliers a bunch parts and hand files and said "Make 'em fit". That worked for a while but the prices went up too far for them to compete with Remington and Savage.

So, Win's engineers made some good design changes that allowed lower cost production. The new free floated barrels of better quality tended to produce better accuracy but the new guns weren't as petty as the near custom fitted old guns so sales dropped - a lot - and, as good as the current crop is, they've never caught up.

Such is life.

Actually it was "make 'em fit" or else you would be terminated. Winchester machinist were having to use old Lincoln milling machines that were so old they would not produce repeatable parts of the same dimensions and the springs were hand wound and hand heat treated. On top of this, they had quota's inserted into the contract that they claimed they couldn't meet with the antiquated machinery. I was a perfect storm for any manufacturing company combined with labor problems. A shame for sure. Those old pre-64 M70's are a wonderful piece and there were still some decent prices out there before Joe took over!

[Landy88]

I know they really aren't any better than a lot of rifles and likely do not live up to the hype...

This depends a lot on the intended use. With their quality, CRF, great safety, and unparalleled hunting triggers they are pretty terrific as very reliable and good handling wild country hunting rifles. On the range or even within a day or two's hike of something approaching civilization a pre-64, old Husqvarna, or well smithed 98 of some flavor aren't any better than a lot of rifles, but in their true element they are.

And even if that weren't so, the simple fact that you want one is reason enough.

[Char-Gar]

I was very much into guns and shooting, when Winchester hit us with a body blow in 1964. It was mostly mental and firearms continued to function as before with a much accuracy as before. That said, when I saw a high quality standard weight pre-64 (1954 vintage)Winchester 70 in a pawn shop for $400.00 about a dozen years ago I snapped it up. They are not magical things, but darn close to it. Horses can do anything a unicorn can, but who wouldn't rather have a unicorn than a horse.

[Bigslug]

Most seek a pre-'64 for the mechanism, and you're more likely to find .30-06's and .270's than anything else. You're on a casting forum, so I assume that the .30-06 is THE natural choice for you for that reason.

Personal experience from my "standard" grade and Pop's Super Grade - being early '50's and late '40's, respectively was that attempting to use Weaver/Picatinny scope bases resulted in two rifles with scopes that misaligned with the bore to the point of using up most of their windage to get zeroed. Both ended up with dovetail front / windage rear bases as a result.

Besides that minor quirk, they're sterling examples of how we wish things were still done, after you look at all the stampings, castings, and roll pins that dominate the industry today. The extractor was proven, the bolt handle shape and placement perfect, the ejector an improvement over the split bolt lug approach taken by Mauser, and the trigger very hard to find fault with.

For alternates worth considering - the CZ 550 does a stellar job of combining M98 and M70 attributes. With real wood and milled carbon steel getting pretty thin on the ground, it's probably one of the last examples.

[OldBearHair]

My 30-06 Model 70 Winchester was acquired in 1959, already a rifle with some age. Never had anything done to it. Straight from the factory with a number 31XXXX. The bolt has very smooth action. Nice Walnut checkered stock. Will shoot less than Moa and in the 1/2 inch square in the bull at a hundred yards. The range manager at Ft Hood Texas circa 1965 told me that I needed to shoot a three shot group on the target he gave me . Shoot in the tunnel and bring the target back and he would score and tell me whether I was good enough to receive the permit to hunt there. When I came back and put the target down, he didn't say anything but got a dime and laid it over the group in the 1/2 inch square. No evidence of the holes showed around the dime. He smiled and said that he supposed that I could hunt there. The rifle is not one of the fancy models, but it is a beauty. There is another post somewhere here with the same story.

[Mk42gunner]

I think it is going to depend on the individual rifle, if it calls out to you, go for it. If it is a worn and abused piece of junk, pass.

Keep in mind the newest Pre-64 rife is 57 years old too.

While I don't remember ever shooting a pre64 Model 70, I have shot a few of the newer ones and there is something about a Model 70 stock that just does not fit me right for extended shooting sessions with anything that recoils more than a 7x57 in a Featherweight. Don't know what for sure; but I tend to stay away from 06 on up.

Robert

[richhodg66]

Well, it's mine. Guy was asking a pretty fair price for the .22 and we worked out what I thought was a good deal for a trade in of mine which had lost its luster for me. The front sight ramp is there, but the sight post itself is not, easy enough. I'll look for a preoper rear sight, but have a slot blank around until then.

I haven't looked carefully at the bore yet. It won't get shot a whole lot and I don't plan to load 4000 FPS stuff in it. Gotta find some dies and brass.

As to scope mounts, it came with a good REdfield/Leupold base and rings attached, but I have become rather enamored with the old Balvar scopes after finding one in Dad's stuff. I do have a set of the bases for a pre-'64 and the plunger/rings assembly, I think I'm gonna try that set up just to satisfy my curiosity about them.

[richhodg66]

"Horses can do anything a unicorn can, but who wouldn't rather have a unicorn than a horse."

Dang, that's profound. Gonna have to remember that and say it in the future.

I am fond of the Model 70's and have had several of the push feeds and one controlled feed made just before Winchester went down and FN took over. All good rifles, but never had a pre-'64 before.

[Norske]

A little-admitted fact is that Sears Roebuck contracted with Winchester to make a version of the M70 with better gas blocking at the rear of the action/bolt. Since they are branded either JC Higgins or Ted Williams, pawn shops often sell them at a bargain price. A member of our shooting range searches for them. The quality is very high, and the rifles often show little use.

[Budzilla 19]

Model 70 Winchester “ Classic Sporter” post- ‘64, CRF action, 26 inch barrel, chambered in, of all things, 7STW! ( know for sure it was built after ‘79)Got lots of other rifles, but, I cannot find fault with this rifle! Added a Browning BOSS to it, and done! Love it. Pre 64, Rich? Go for it! Congratulations.

[Cast10]

I’m a model 70 30/06 guy! Had a pre-64 in /06 from 1939. Fine specimen. Nice shooter. I was young then!

Kept it some 8-10 years. Straight shooter. Got married.

First Christmas my wife bought me a brand new M-70 XTR in 30/06 (1989). You know I still got it! Best shooting rifle I’ve ever owned. Shoots lights out groups. Rifleman’s Rifle!

[Martin Luber]

I bought a '48 in o6 with peep sights, plan to use mostly cast to avoid bbl wear

[Outpost75]

As FYI Winchester Model 70 prior to 1942 in 30Govt06 had clip slot receiver whereas postwar only had clip slot on Match rifles. The Model 54 in '06 had clip slot receiver.

[pietro]

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Back when I was able to hunt, I had excellent results ( like: bang/flop) with my 6.5x55 CRF Model 70 Featherweight.

[Landy88]

As FYI Winchester Model 70 prior to 1942 in 30Govt06 had clip slot receiver whereas postwar only had clip slot on Match rifles. The Model 54 in '06 had clip slot receiver.

Good to learn, that more than the match rifles once had clip slots. Would it be an accurate guess that they were cut for Springfield '03 clips?

[zarrinvz24]

I have 2 pre-war Model 70's all in the venerable 30-06, and I'm caretaker for a third. They have a different feel than any other rifle, and I wouldn't trade them for anything. I say that you should go for it, that feeling of want will only get worse and you will watch the prices continue to rise. Looking back now, I'm glad I purchased them when I did, even though they weren't cheap even 10 years ago. I use the Swedish surplus stripper clips in mine.

[white eagle]

Own more model 70's than anything
started out with a 280 rem now a 280 ackley
had a m70 compact in 7-08 rem now a 358 win
had a super grade in 30-06 now a 35 Whelen
and had a m70 feather weight in 22-250 now a 220 swift
so yeah I like m70's
I think you will be happy with your 220 swift

[Outpost75]

Good to learn, that more than the match rifles once had clip slots. Would it be an accurate guess that they were cut for Springfield '03 clips?

Correct!

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