One point about sin is that ALL sin separates us from God, and all sin made Jesus suffer and die on the cross. A trait that seems to be increasingly absent from the church and the world is compassion. We, myself included, are too quick to jump up on a soapbox and start preaching hellfire, and not quick enough to get done off the box and try to be a friend and a guide.
In the end, fornication is fornication. Only God knows why homosexuals have been given this mental illness cross to bear.
Perhaps you need to find employment where management does not discriminate yet does not enable mental illness.
Yes, this is definitely a modern day Sodom and Gomora. I would handle this with prayer and meditation on the Word.
I don't believe gays or have been "given" any cross to bear; it's no more a cross for them to bear than being a prostitute, a thief or a liberal politician (but I repeat myself). Anyway, living in deliberate sin is something sinners seek for themselves and none of them need outside help to do it.Originally Posted by Butzbach
Amen! God would not put being a homosexual or lesbian on anyone. This is a choice that is made by the individual. I have heard that they are born this way, with the attraction to the same sex being in their genes. I say this is hogwash. I also don't believe that transgender/non-binary folks are born with this urge to be something they are not. God makes NO mistakes and they are born as God intended.
True.
I know some people are indeed born with tendencies towards specific things. Some lean towards football, some towards basketball and some foolishly lean towards golf; some lean towards doing paperwork, some towards race car driving; some towards hang gliding, some fishing; some lean towards armed thief and robbery, some towards being uniformed cops and some towards the military; most folk lean towards straight but some towards perversions of various kinds. BUT, putting all public whining aside, if something is wrong, it's wrong and no one is compelled and helpless to do or be anything he/she does not choose to do. Queerdom is clearly wrong because the parts don't fit and no amount of current human approval will change that.
Bottom homosexual Line: Some men naturally prefer to rob banks for a living instead of going to work every day but they can live right, they sure don't HAVE to rob banks instead of doing right ... and they sure don't HAVE to pack poo at night.
Enough said.God makes NO mistakes and they are born as God intended.
Think about the reality we know. Babies are born with serious health defects (e.g., blind, missing limbs and the list goes on). Is that how God intended the baby to be born? No, I don't think so (If you think God wants a child to be born blind, I don't know what to tell you). But this is the fallen world in which we live and have to navigate.
I sure don't have to make a choice to be heterosexual. It is who I am. I also believe some people are born (call it a birth defect if you wish) with same-sex attractions. They don't make a choice in who they are attracted to. Where we all have the choice is what we do in life, how we behave. Just because I am attracted to women other than my wife doesn't mean I have to act on it. The homosexual doesn't have to act on his urges either.
To elaborate, there have been studies conducted by Christians (mental health care professionals) that conclude there are three components to homosexuality. The first is a biological one. This is a predisposition of attraction to the same sex. Let's not kid ourselves, you can take a look at most gay people and know right away they are different. The next is how that person has been raised and their experiences in life (e.g., many homosexual people were sexually abused as children). The last is the person's choice. They can fight their desires or not.
Yes, I believe homosexual behavior is contrary to the divine desire for man. The same holds true for sex outside of marriage for heterosexuals. The Bible's prohibition on both activities is because God doesn't want man to be harmed by the results of such activities. The difference is that the Bible tells men and women to get married and have all the sex they want to (i.e., problem solved for the heterosexual). The homosexual cannot get married to a same sex partner and be pleasing to God, even if that is their sincere desire. That is a pretty hard row to hoe.
To sum it up, some people are born seriously broken and/or get broken early in life. If the Church really wants to help these people (rather than acting like a bunch of judgmental pricks), Christians should gain a proper understanding of the issue instead of what some think they know.
What you don't seem to understand or don't want to; this is not what "I" think, this is what the Bible teaches so in either case here is what the Bible says about homosexuality:
Leviticus 18:22-24
22 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
23 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
24 “ ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled.
Leviticus 20:13
KJV
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
ESV
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
NLT
“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
And to answer your question about birth defects, diseases, etc... yes I do believe this is how God intended these folks to be. For one reason is the Garden of Eden when we gave up paradise and a perfect world, and the other reason is that God is infallible, He makes NO MISTAKES!
The first thing to realize is that God forbids certain activities because he loves us and doesn't want us hurt doing certain things. It is not because he is on a power trip getting enjoyment from bossing people around. The Church should do the same. Can you explain why homosexual behavior is bad, apart from the fact that the Bible says do not do it? I don't hear many Christians expounding on the issue. This is where the Church really fails: not explaining the consequences of sin (pick any sin). Christians often do what you did, just quote a bunch of Scripture. It is very ineffective.
Homosexuals are really in a unique situation because their biology pushes them to do something that has no legitimate outlet according to the Bible. I don't believe they can "pray away the gay" anymore than any of us can pray away our own unsavory desires.
As far as birth defects and disease, if you think God selects certain individuals to be blind, etc., you misunderstand how he deals with the human race. It is God's desire that we all be healthy, well fed and live a satisfying life (see Jesus' ministry). However, he is not involved in every decision we make nor does he prevent the bad things that happen to us on a routine basis. Bad things happen to people that God does not want to happen. It doesn't mean he makes mistakes or is imperfect.
I disagree on the statement that "homosexuals are born that way". I believe that they are. Since the sin of Adam ALL men have been born with a sinful nature. I was born as a murderer, bank robber, cussing, sinful man.
BUT BT GODS GRACE AND MERCY WITH GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND GODS WORD, I learned to put away my sinful nature and live as close to Gods instruction manual( the Bible) as I can.
Being brought up in a sinful atmosphere such as child abuse, lack of a father figure or drunken parents fighting allows a thought pattern to dwell on sinful behavior.
I believe that many people committing abominations are demon possessed. As stated, the constant behavior of many homosexuals is different from heterosexuals. How could they constantly act abnormal without a demon.
I thank God that He has shown upon me His Grace and Mercy.
With that said, we Christians are the only light and salt that many sinners will see. And sadly many, many will not come to God and repent.
Best idea I have is to ignore them and their calumny and laugh up your sleeve at their whining.
Gun control is not about guns.
Whether or not you don't believe "Scripture" is ineffective means absolutely nothing to me. Scripture is what I live my life around as a Christian. You seem to know everything about God and how he thinks so I guess it's possible that He has shared his thoughts and feelings with you in particular. The rest of us will just have to live the way the Bible tells us to do so.
Scripture is effective, but the way we relate the ideas contained in Scripture to non-believers is of utmost importance. No non-Christian is going to be swayed by throwing a bunch of versus at them (they don't hold the Bible as authoritative). We can, however, convey God's message in understandable language in the least offensive and least combative ways possible. If you do this, you might get somewhere.
God has shared his thoughts and feelings with me. This information is contained within the Bible.
I guess one good thing is gay people won't be reproducing. any of these issues seem to bring me back to the serenity prayer;
god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.
father, give us courage to change what must be altered,
serenity to accept what cannot be helped,
and the insight to know one from the other.
it took quite a while for me to fully understand and try to live by what's in this prayer.
Well, the OP felt so strongly about this he never came back.
To answer his question: there's no way to eliminate the promotion and inclusion of gays in the workplace. If he tries it he'll be fired. If the company tries it they'll be sued.
If he can't accept the new normal, he'll be better off finding a new job.
I can accept the whole diversity inclusion thing even though I think it's a crock, what I have a problem with is the forced elevation of a certain class or category of anyone. That's NOT how equity or equality works.
If HalfDog decides to stay at his current job the best he can do is bide his time and play by the rules. On the other hand if he ends up being mistreated or discriminated against because he's not One Of Them, at least he'll have some grounds for a lawsuit if he chooses to try that.
Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.
You are wrong I believe, in singling out one sin. Unless you can be 100% sure all of the management of those you work for are perfect beings then you cannot expect some sins to be ignored and others excluded.
As believers we have to love others, but not their behavior. If I were to say anything it would be that inclusion means just that. It doesn't mean to make an exception of in a positive or negative way. I worked with a homosexual who was lazy and not much of a worker. She kept her job because corporate watched to make sure she was not mistreated in any way. There were other heterosexuals who were also lazy and poor workers. They received warnings and were told to change. That when brought out is the way to make inclusion happen, not preventing a sinner from earning a wage.
Unfortunately in todays' atmosphere, speaking out just puts a target on your back that can follow you to the next job and beyond.
[The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze
How wrong can one be?
I have been watching the replies. It seems the the majority suggests to accept sin as sin, something we all do and not let one sin overpower my feelings. That will be hard to do. Perhaps this door (job) is closing and another door is opening.
The sooner I fall behind...the more time I have to catch up with
Your not the only one that's been watching this thread with interest. The real problem is that many times "they" want preferential treatment, not equality. I work with all kinds of people who are unrepentant sinners, and some is the sin of homosexuality. The vast majority of homosexuals I have and do work with are not "in your face" with it, and it's a non issue as far as work goes.
As far as my beliefs go. I'm not an "in your face" Christian. I look for the rite time to share my faith, but force it on no one. I accept that I live in a fallen world full of sin and corruption, and I need to let my light shine, or rather Christ light shine through me. I don't have, and shouldn't, be a partaker in anyone's sin to work and make a living. Now if my employer where to require I participate in a gay promotional event or face reprimand or replacement, I'd have a serious choice to make!
I suppose some sins are worse than others and carry worse consequences here on earth, but in the end ALL unrepentant, unforgiven sins end in separation from God!
I've given the statement above quite a bit of thought and what I have to say about is this: You say:"Can you explain why homosexual behavior is bad, apart from the fact that the Bible says do not do it?." The Bible also says to not steal, commit murder, adultery, etc... So according to your way of thinking; all these things aren't bad just because the Bible says to not do them. Murder is not bad, stealing is not bad, adultery is not bad; I say you are completely off base and have no clue.
As far as your last paragraph about birth defects and such, God has had every moment in time planned out long before we were here. Oh, we have free will to make our own choices after birth, but the Bible states that God knew us even before we were even thought of, therefore He did make us exactly how he wanted each of us to be. What you don't seem to understand is that God uses all of these things good or bad for His ultimate plan which we can't even begin to comprehend. I have had many a handicapped person touch my life in ways that would have never happened had they not been handicapped. These people who are born with defects are an inspiration as long as they don't sit around and have a "Oh feel sorry for me" attitude. Just think of all the handicapped folks who have made a huge impact on this world in science, music, mathematics, etc... Yes, God has had all of this planned before the beginning of time. Sorry to disappoint you and your theories.
You are correct.
Concern yourself more with the way you live and if your current job is unacceptable for any reason, it is time to leave.
God may have been able to save the world, but only if the world wanted to be saved and as you can see, a lot of 'the world' doesn't want anyone's help. Likewise, God never intended for you to save the world, only to help people who are interested in being helped.
If a co-worker seeks Christ, help him or her find Him. If you feel the company is on a path to Damnation or that they would set you on that path, it's time to leave.
Best of luck to luck to you.
Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.
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