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Thread: New 12 Gauge Loading Kit

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    New 12 Gauge Loading Kit

    Those hardwood vintage / antique loading kits appear to have inspired a new micro-printed kit, that blends them and Lee style kits' features in newer material by newer tech. It looks like a small, light, and handy kit.

    "Mobile 12 Gauge Reloading Kit Only From The Reloaders Network"
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.


    “Ironically, the only gun control in 19th century England was the policy forbidding police to have arms while on duty.”
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  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Not bad … afraid the plastic resizing ring won’t last too long, especially for high brass hulls

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    OK, but I'm more impressed with the crimp he gets from the kit. Mine usually look off the mark by a little.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I have never understood why people want something like this. You get a better shell, more versatility, and more rounds per hour with a cheap used MEC single stage press. I have not bought one in a while but I used to see them for $50-70.

    I know...bugging out. A concept that will get a lot of folks killed. But if bugging out is your thing, the last thing you want is weight and volume; and 12 ga shells (or components) are the worst option IMO.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  5. #5
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    For me the toss up would be to take a shotgun or a carbine and revolver chambered for the same caliber "IF I WAS FORCED TO BUG OUT. And likely I'd be doing the carbine/handgun thing. Not a bad looking reloader thingy for someone who shoots 5 or 6 boxes a year for 59.99 but I'd want a machine shop to make the support tube out of aluminum along with the resizing ring at the least.
    Last edited by MOA; 06-04-2021 at 02:14 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I know...bugging out. A concept that will get a lot of folks killed. But if bugging out is your thing, the last thing you want is weight and volume; and 12 ga shells (or components) are the worst option IMO.
    I know, right! "Oh ****, time to bug out!!! Lemme just grab my big plastic reloading kit, these bags of loose shot, a can of powder, some primers, a couple bags of wads, and my 235lb bug out bag and I'll meet you at the the old beater BOV that I haven't changed the oil in or done any maintenance to in 5 years. We'll be randomly roaming the mountains looking for a place to camp by dark!"

    I don't get it...I think for most people, it's just a weird fantasy. They think they'll be warlord of the forest ruling over a harem with their overflowing bags of junk, but most of them would probably die of a heart attack from the "bugging" part before they even got to the "out".

    Now that being said, I own something substantially similar to this for 410, but I shoot like 20 of those a year and it's cheaper to bang them out on that goofy kit than to invest in a MEC or whatever...

  7. #7
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    The whole purpose of the original Lee Loader was to get people into reloading. Then if they wanted to continue they would buy more sophisticated tools and machines.

    My first Loading kit was a Lee Loader I bought in 1971 to load for my Sako Forrester .243 Still have the kit, don't have the gun. Next one I bought was a .44 for my M29 and I Don't have that gun or kit anymore.

    I have a pre Lee Precision Mecham tool which I recently got out to prove that you could get perfect crimps with I sometimes load slugs with it. It is all steel and was probably made in the 60's and is still nice. I don't see this plastic one lasting very long. The sizing function is dumb.

    As far as bugging out? Where are you going to go? And How Long do you plan on being gone? Would you be better off just taking enough ammo with you?

    If you must Bug Out wouldn't you be better off with one of my Hand Presses. I can load several calibers with the contents of this tool bag.

    Randy
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    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
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    The sizing ring appears to be metal.
    As a Lee Loader alumnus, I was pained to see several things that could have been done better by simply copying the long out of patent, Lee Loader and instructions.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I started reloading somewhere around 1976 with a Lee loader for 3" .410. Dad said he was going broke buying my shells. Followed a year or so later by a 2 3/4" 20 gauge kit.

    I seldom got anything close to a factory appearing crimp with plastic shells. Maybe they work better with paper?

    I remember Remington 3" .410 shells weren't 3", they were more like 2 7/8" Lee even included a spacer for them. Federal 3" .410 were all roll crimped, I never had any luck with them at all.

    Also the Lee kit didn't size shotgun shells; my H&R would barely kick them out far enough to grab and pull the case out, it would put factory loads over your shoulder just by hitting the thumb lever. It was also sometimes a chore to pull the foreend back with either my Remington 870 or Dad's Winchester Model 1200 20 gauge.

    All in all, I fall into the buy a used MEC camp, if you are going to reload shotgun shells. Preferably one that has the collet resizer.

    Robert

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    “The spirit of Walter Mitty is strong in these!” How many of us/you are ever likely to actually face a “bug out” situation?

    In my case, I can only imagine assembling a “go bag” of gear to go on a camping/hunting trip, and I’m going to take a little more loaded ammo than I am likely to need. The one exception to this is those times when I have an extended match (North-South Skirmish or American Single Shot Rifle Associations) and the shooting pace is relatively slow and proper brass is expensive and in limited supply. Even then I like to go with as possible of my ammo preloaded and only reload there if necessary.
    All that reloading cuts into my shootin’, drinkin’, and lie tellin’ time!

    Froggie
    Last edited by Green Frog; 06-05-2021 at 10:22 AM.
    "It aint easy being green!"

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Here in California we have bug-out bags for earthquakes...some EQ's are more sever than others & your not likely to need the bag unless you live along the San Andreas fault line.
    Now with all the fires it would be a good idea, at least you'd have some food and essentials for a few days of CHAOS.

    I can see the use of such a bag (modified of course) for up north in the snow country where you can blizzard-ed in your car on the turnpike and get stuck for a day or more.

    I wouldn't consider buggin out living in the Sierras here...but I would if I lived in a crowded city but that's for a Stuff-HTF scenario.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    I collect or more accurately accumulate shotgun loading tools. Ponsness-Warren down to the Lee Loaders and about everything in between. The one hand loading kit that I own that makes a nice final crimp is the Russian small plastic press that was popular on the internet sales sites a couple years ago. (I've posted pics if you do a search) My only complaint with the Survival 410 tool or my Lee Loaders is that the final crimp is workable but not pretty. As to "Bugging out" I'm much to old and fat for that. I'll make my stand right here in the middle of my toys. Gp

  13. #13
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    Guys the key to getting good crimps with these tools lies in the Pre-Crimp. You need to get the Pre-Crimp closed as far as you can so that the final crimp just pushes it down, and doesn't have to do much of the closing. See the pics above in Post #7

    I was having to push the Pre-Crimp tool down on the shell very hard several times to get it as closed as you see in the pic. The first few times it just opened right back up. Once I figured out how far to go I had no problem getting the final crimp to look right.

    I either use my little Sinclair Arbor Press or my Drill press to run these tools. There is no way you can beat on them the same way every time with a hammer, and consistency matters in reloading.

    Despite popular opinions on this subject, Hand Dies were never designed to be used with Hammers. They were designed to be ran with an Arbor Press. Lee just figured out that his tools could be ran with a plastic mallet and it didn't hurt the tools and it made it easier for the beginner to load ammo at home. When you look at it,,, Lee has gotten more people into reloading than all the others combined.

    But by the same token,,, you won't see anyone beating on a Wilson Hand Die,,, which IMHO,,, should be a Capitol Offense !!!

    If you do a "batch" type reloading process, where you run all the cases thru each step before moving to the next step, you can load say 20 or 50 rounds nearly as fast as you can with a Single Stage Press, It's all about getting your process down to where you aren't wasting a bunch of motion.

    Anyway like I said above I don't see one of these plastic kits lasting very long. Lots of stuff being done with 3D printing but people need to figure out where the materials they have to work with are most appropriate.

    My .02

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Anyway like I said above I don't see one of these plastic kits lasting very long. Lots of stuff being done with 3D printing but people need to figure out where the materials they have to work with are most appropriate.

    My .02

    Randy
    The old wood versions likely shared this trait to a lessor or greater extent, but are often still found in great shape. This hints that I am not the only one that views such tools, even the more durable Lee or Herter's, primarily as tools to learn on then stash in a reloading desk drawer for occasional use or even just for the knowledge that I can load x or y or load it in an alternate way or place, if I want. They take up no more room than nor cost as much as a set of dies in their box.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.


    “Ironically, the only gun control in 19th century England was the policy forbidding police to have arms while on duty.”
    ~ Don B. Kates, Jr.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS OK View Post
    I can see the use of such a bag (modified of course) for up north in the snow country where you can blizzard-ed in your car on the turnpike and get stuck for a day or more.
    Although a loading kit would be of little help, people get stuck for a lot more than a day in some places. Where I used to live the local radio and paper / web news covered North Eastern WA, the ID Panhandle, and Western MT, and nearly every thaw reported on people discovered from the winter before. Pretty typical in other colder parts of Alaska, too. Oddly, it is not often newbies but long-term residents found as slowly thawing icicles.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.


    “Ironically, the only gun control in 19th century England was the policy forbidding police to have arms while on duty.”
    ~ Don B. Kates, Jr.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Guys the key to getting good crimps with these tools lies in the Pre-Crimp. You need to get the Pre-Crimp closed as far as you can so that the final crimp just pushes it down, and doesn't have to do much of the closing. See the pics above in Post #7

    I was having to push the Pre-Crimp tool down on the shell very hard several times to get it as closed as you see in the pic. The first few times it just opened right back up. Once I figured out how far to go I had no problem getting the final crimp to look right.

    I either use my little Sinclair Arbor Press or my Drill press to run these tools. There is no way you can beat on them the same way every time with a hammer, and consistency matters in reloading.
    Randy
    Randy,

    I had come to pretty much the same conclusion... it's getting the existing crimp "petals" lined up and started down that makes all the difference. The video shown to demonstrate the new offering makes it clear that the user in the demo gets his crimp going really carefully and pretty deeply before moving on to the final step.

    What I would like to know is where I can get such crimp starters in 410 bore. The old Lee Custom used to make them but when they went belly up, Lee Precision didn't take up their production... in fact, I'm not sure the current Lee does anything for hand loading ("pressless") shot shells. Do any of the small specialty vendors make a 410 crimp starter or do I have to continue to haunt flea Bay to find an old one? As an alternative, I'm thinking of buying a MEC crimp starter as a press part and converting it for hand use.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  17. #17
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    The ones from MEC or Hornady will work just fine.

    On .410's it is critical to get the Crimp Starter lined up with the previous folds or it wrecks the final crimp. The spines on the outside of the starters coincide with the splines on the inside of the tool. Figured that out all by myself!

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Landy88 View Post
    Although a loading kit would be of little help, people get stuck for a lot more than a day in some places. Where I used to live the local radio and paper / web news covered North Eastern WA, the ID Panhandle, and Western MT, and nearly every thaw reported on people discovered from the winter before. Pretty typical in other colder parts of Alaska, too. Oddly, it is not often newbies but long-term residents found as slowly thawing icicles.
    With fewer people smoking, most folks have no way to start a fire. It is more likely they died from freezing than lack of food.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    With fewer people smoking, most folks have no way to start a fire. It is more likely they died from freezing than lack of food.
    Yes, it was almost certainly hypothermia in nearly every case - they did not live long enough to get hungry. The most useful single things are a small space safe stove and a pot with which to make hot drinks putting some heat directly into you and your vehicle or other shelter. Dressing for the cold outside rather than the warm car or destination and having sleeping bags along on every trip are also key.

    But, I just noticed your Northern Michigan location. I kinda doubt that I can tell you anything about cold winters that you don't already know.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.


    “Ironically, the only gun control in 19th century England was the policy forbidding police to have arms while on duty.”
    ~ Don B. Kates, Jr.

  20. #20
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    I live in So Cal,,, I still have small Sleeping Bags in all my cars. I usually have shorts and a tee shirt on so it could get cold enough at 40 degrees to be very uncomfortable if you had to spend a night in a car.

    Did that on New Years Eve once in a 56 T Bird with 2 other guys. Our spare tire was on a Chevy Rim and when the rear tire blew we were prepared. Except for that Ford/Chevy thing! We were in the Maricopa Highway from Ojai to Taft and above 3000 feet elev.

    Do you know how many cars came past us that night? Does "Zero" sound about right. The first one came by at 9:00 AM on New Years day.

    We froze our butts off, and we were packed in that car tight, and running the engine/heater alot.. Last time I did that. It was 1967! We were idiots! It was low 30's that night.

    Can't imagine what it would have been like if it was actually cold.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check