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Thread: Traded into a gem, 1894 Win. .32 special made in 1899!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Traded into a gem, 1894 Win. .32 special made in 1899!

    I am a sucker for a neat old lever or single shot rifle, any caliber. I ran across this one in a gunshop the other day, and traded for it. It is a 94 Winchester in .32 Special caliber, with a 26" octagonal barrel. The receiver is mostly bare or patina, with no rust,and the barrel is bluish, turning plum and patina, and has a full length mag tube. The rifle is tight and smooth in operation, when I oiled it up, was dry as a bone. It has a very long forearm, and both it and the stock is in very good condition. The deal maker, was the bright bore, with crisp rifling in very good condition. It has original rear sight, Win. buckhorn and a brass bead front. The rear sight is very long, matching the long forearm I guess. It also has the tang tapped for a peep sight, and I have a Marlbes to fit it. Waiting on a sizing die to get here, so I can size down some .325 Mauser bullets to .322 to load for it. The barrel is slim, and the whole gun is a natural pointer, really hangs well when holding it on target off hand. If it shoots great, I will keep it, if not, may send it to JES to become a .38/55, either way cant loose. Just thought I would share, may get TBG to post some pics for me tomorrow.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Does it have a smokeless sight? I've never seen one from the 19th century. I always thought they 32 WS was created after the turn of the century.

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master veeman's Avatar
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    I thought the 32 Special didn't come out till 1902, according to Wikipedia.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I ran the #'s on a Winchester date sight, might have been barreled somewhere along the way, all they would have to change is the barrel from a 30/30.

  5. #5
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    i dont see no pics??? watts it look like?
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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  6. #6
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
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    When the Winchester’s were rebarreled by the factory, they stamped a “P” on the barrel. I have a 1906 vintage 25 35 SRC that was factory rebarreled.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I think Win 32 was never factory loaded with BP. It was made for people who wanted to reload with BP because smokeless was new and some didn’t like it. I guess they did it so 30/30s wouldn’t be loaded with BP and give them bad rep.
    I bought a Marlin a while back. Nice saddle ring carbine, oct barrel. 32/40. Bought dies, brass and bullets. Couldn’t wait to shoot it. My loads were no good. Come to find out it had been chambered to 32 Win. It shot good but I took it back, paid good dollar for 32/40.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    Drm50 is correct, the 32-40 was the pre eminent small bore cartridge of its day and Winchester like many others chambered lots of rifles in 32-40 and had lots of barrels around for the 32-40 . It’s no brainer to make a reamer for a 32 cal that fits 30-30 brass, 30-30 was originally designed for 30 grs of b/p while new steel and new smokeless powders came at the same time so b/p was dropped the name stayed.
    Early 32 Specials had a reversible elevator for the rear sight one side for b/p and the other for smokeless and were so marked. These are the rarest of the 94’s that still have their reversible elevators and were made with the Winchester “Nickel Steel” unlike all other 32-40’s up to that date that were for b/p. Reloading for the new fangled smokeless Winchester knew they had to provide an alternative in the 94 that could be reloaded. New smokeless powder wasn’t going to be readily available with data . 30-30 was factory ammo only deal for sometime before being accepted and components available. .32 Special is the better of the two cartridges for all practical purposes.30-30 was never loaded with b/p as it’s name suggest for previous cartridges, 30 grns. of b/p .30 cal bullet was never factory offered, it’s a fast twist with deep rifling for jacked bulllets going fast. I am not sure if . 32 Special was not offered in b/p it would be interesting to know. Probably not because those 32-40 shooters already had what was needed to reload with b/p.
    Last edited by Randy Bohannon; 06-05-2021 at 10:19 AM.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohannon View Post
    Drm50 is correct, the 32-40 was the pre eminent small bore cartridge of its day and Winchester like many others chambered lots of rifles in 32-40 and had lots of barrels around for the 32-40 . It’s no brainer to make a reamer for a 32 cal that fits 30-30 brass, 30-30 was originally designed for 30 grs of b/p while new steel and new smokeless powders came at the same time so b/p was dropped the name stayed.
    Early 32 Specials had a reversible elevator for the rear sight one side for b/p and the other for smokeless and were so marked. These are the rarest of the 94’s that still have their reversible elevators and were made with the Winchester “Nickel Steel” unlike all other 32-40’s up to that date that were for b/p. Reloading for the new fangled smokeless Winchester knew they had to provide an alternative in the 94 that could be reloaded. New smokeless powder wasn’t going to be readily available with data . 30-30 was factory ammo only deal for sometime before being accepted and components available. .32 Special is the better of the two cartridges for all practical purposes.30-30 was never loaded with b/p as it’s name suggest for previous cartridges, 30 grns. of b/p .30 cal bullet was never factory offered, it’s a fast twist with deep rifling for jacked bulllets going fast. I am not sure if . 32 Special was not offered in b/p it would be interesting to know. Probably not because those 32-40 shooters already had what was needed to reload with b/p.
    NO!
    The 30-30 was designed for smokeless from the start in 1895.
    It used 30 grains of smokeless: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-30_Winchester
    It was called the .30WCF but Marlin hated to add Winchesters name onto their rifles so they coined the 30-30.

  10. #10
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    Eddie Southgate's Avatar
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    October 1901 is said to be the date for the first .32 Specials so it is re barreled . I'd leave it a .32 Special if it were mine . The Special is a great shooting cartridge and I don't see enough advantage between it and the 38-55 to spend the dollars to change it . I have both a 94 in .32 WS and an 1885 in 38-55 .
    I am gonna re bore a 1970's 94 to 38-55 from 30-30 since I have several in that caliber and none in 38-55. Wouldn't do it to a vintage gun even one that was not original . Get a Cody letter before you do anything to it . It's not impossible that that rifle could have been in stock at the factory for a couple of years and factory re barreled before being shipped to fill an order for a .32 Special .
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohannon View Post
    Drm50 is correct, the 32-40 was the pre eminent small bore cartridge of its day and Winchester like many others chambered lots of rifles in 32-40 and had lots of barrels around for the 32-40 . It’s no brainer to make a reamer for a 32 cal that fits 30-30 brass, 30-30 was originally designed for 30 grs of b/p while new steel and new smokeless powders came at the same time so b/p was dropped the name stayed.
    Early 32 Specials had a reversible elevator for the rear sight one side for b/p and the other for smokeless and were so marked. These are the rarest of the 94’s that still have their reversible elevators and were made with the Winchester “Nickel Steel” unlike all other 32-40’s up to that date that were for b/p. Reloading for the new fangled smokeless Winchester knew they had to provide an alternative in the 94 that could be reloaded. New smokeless powder wasn’t going to be readily available with data . 30-30 was factory ammo only deal for sometime before being accepted and components available. .32 Special is the better of the two cartridges for all practical purposes.30-30 was never loaded with b/p as it’s name suggest for previous cartridges, 30 grns. of b/p .30 cal bullet was never factory offered, it’s a fast twist with deep rifling for jacked bulllets going fast. I am not sure if . 32 Special was not offered in b/p it would be interesting to know. Probably not because those 32-40 shooters already had what was needed to reload with b/p.
    I believe that the 30WCF was the first commercial cartridge designed exclusively for smokeless powder. The 30-30 designation came from other firearms manufacturers that were loathe to put any reference to Winchester on their rifles. While I understand that the 30 WCF can be loaded with black powder, it was never an intent originally.

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I would leave it as a 32WCF. The cartridge is great, it's easy to load for, and brass can be made from 30-30 brass. The 38-55 is a lot harder to load for, brass (right now) is impossible to get, sizing dies and reloading dies are non-existent right now and are at the bottom of the list for restock due to focus on more popular calibers. Why mess with a good thing?

  13. #13
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    The only advantage to a 30-30 over 32 Spec is that a lot more molds are available in 30 cal vs 32 cal.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    I didn't see it mentioned, but the 32 WS has a 1-16 twist barrel, making it VERY cast bullet friendly. They are wonderful rifles for the cast bullet guy.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Have a 1894 long barrel in 32-40 and a few carbines in 32 spec. Only difference I could notice on the early original 30wcf was they are engraved Nickel Steel w/faster twist. 32 special was not. Just ordinary gun steel of the time w/slower twist for B/P and smokeless use. Was thinking of a Jess 38-55 re-bore for my long barrel but I have so many 32 specials I didn't want to get into 35cal. And still don't. 32-40 is around 3/16s short brass of a 38-55. Although 32-40 will target about the same. Long barrels I have see little to no use. Carbines 30 wcf and 32s get paper patched for 100 yrd target shooting. My primary hunting guns. 270 win Rem Mtn and 300 savage carbine. Ones for above ground enclosed stand use the other having original barrel sights. That one for quick snap shots in the bush.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I have sent pics to TBG. It is stamped nickel steel for smokeless powder loads. I am waiting on a mold and sizing die, everything else is ready to go. The bore is very good so am waiting to get some loads together and shoot it. I have a Marbles tang sight to fit it and stretch its legs out.

  17. #17
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    Texas by God's Avatar
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    That's a great looking rifle, sir.Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Wow! Wouldn't be thinking about doing anything with that rifle but shoot it?

  19. #19
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    I didn't see it mentioned, but the 32 WS has a 1-16 twist barrel, making it VERY cast bullet friendly. They are wonderful rifles for the cast bullet guy.
    this!!
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    The 32 Special is probably the best of the cast bullet calibers for most purposes in the lever guns. Its 1-16 twist works well with flat-nosed bullets up to 200 grains, stable well past 200 yards, have not tried heavier. I do .323 boolits in my Marlin's. Contrary to gun writer blather it does hit harder than the 30-30. I do not see much advantage in going to the 38-55 for most purposes. The Hornady gummi-tip 165 and the Speer flatnose 170 have very similar Ballistic Coefficients and Leverevoltion powder can get you over 2300 fps. I've shot a deer, a few pronghorn and a cow elk with my Marlin 32's. Starline is making good 32 Special brass with a rim closer to SAAMI max, improving cartridge headspacing for better/ more consistent performace. Looks and sounds like a really SPECIAL rifle.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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GC Gas Check