Is a .357mag needed? Why not a .38sp?

[Winger Ed.]

I shoot a lot of .38s in .357s too.
For hunting, self defense, I'll gas a few up to full power, but mostly load to .38 speeds.

It reminds me of the 'Happy Days' episode where Al was commenting on Fonzie's recent tune up of their school bus.

"You may never need a school bus to go from zero to sixty in three seconds, but it's nice to know you can".

[358429]

Probably of higher importance is skill in loading the cylinder, shooting fast and accurate and reloading the gun quickly under stress and revolvers are slow, way slow unless you are Jerry Michulek. Then you are fast, so very fast! Hey Cargo Are you deciding what ammunition to use for a purpose, or deciding on a gun purchase? If the latter I strongly recomend 357 Mag as an excellent cartridge, especially if you handload or have interest in it.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Used to be that a .38 was a .38 and a .357 was much more, but with today's improved bullets and loadings the gap has narrowed and the usefulness of each overlaps. I believe that a properly loaded .38 Spec. will cover most two-legged situations, but for potentially dangerous game I'd still want the .357.

DG

[rintinglen]

I shoot about 15 38's for every one .357 round I fire. But my bedside S&W is loaded with .357's, because I once had a wrestling match with a suspect who had been shot with a .38, and I am too old to go through that again. Likewise, if I am hiking in bear country, I carry a .357 loaded with 358-429's loaded to the gills, unless there might be a grizzly in the offing. In which case, I carry a 44 Magnum.

Ultimately, the most powerful gun you can master, is the gun you should carry if you know you are going in harms way. There is no substitute for horsepower, save maybe accuracy, but the power remains constant, while the ability to deliver an accurate shot diminishes as the pucker factor increases.

[Char-Gar]

In Texas, a properly loaded 38 Special will do the job. However with a 357 Mag, you also have a 38 Special and some other options. I feel the same about the 44 Mag. I don 't load them much over a 44 Spl, but I can if I want to.

[DougGuy]

The original intent of the 1/10th of an inch longer .357 case was to take advantage of Keith's hotter .38 loadings in stronger, modern handguns with a cartridge that would not fit into and damage the older, weaker, tail-end-of-blackpowder-era revolvers.

^^ This... The OP asks if a 38 Spl is loaded to xxx number of ft lbs of energy, do we need a 357? the answer would lie in the scenario surrounding the requirements of the boolit. As previously stated, for most purposes, the +P 38 is fine.

I would venture to say that the 357 is needed when you need a load that CANNOT be assembled and fired safely with 38 Spl components.

[Cargo]

Hey Cargo Are you deciding what ammunition to use for a purpose, or deciding on a gun purchase?

Alright, I'm busted. My son keeps trying to requisition my GP100 and currently in my area a sorely beat up .357 starts around $850-900. I thought maybe a Model 10 or similar could fill the bill for a while.

I normally keep .38+p sjhp's in my revolvers around the house. They are carried but not on a regular basis and I do enjoy a healthy helping of 2400 in my magnum cases.

[Krag 1901]

A lot depends on the gun you use. I favor my Colt Police Positive 4th Gen 4" for a nightstand gun. Smooth and accurate, 110 or 125 gr Hps will deter most two legged varmints at 10-30 feet. Light and handy. but my Colt '357" the precursor to the Python, is almost as smooth and a heck of a lot heavier for a** kicking loads.

I just loaded some 125 HPs and 158 gr Soft points at almost +P vel's to try to duplicate the Rem 125 +P load which I found to be very accurate in my D frame Colts. I used up the last of my H-4227 powder to load near max.

[dannyd]

I’m a GP100 and Blackhawk guy. Basically the only thing I load for is 38 special 357 magnum; cast about 15 different bullets for them.

[Scrounge]

Is it okay that I am curious where the boar was struck? If he struck the mad boar 7 times in the head and was still charging, I'd want a gatling gun in 454 casull instead!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Sure it's OK. I'm just glad I heard the story a decade or so after it happened. He had no idea where he hit it. It's possible he missed every round. It's possible he hit the head every time. Once the boar knew he wasn't coming down from that tree, several hours later, it wandered off. He didn't come down from the tree until his relief showed up. I certainly can't blame him.

I know when my dad slaughtered a hog he used a 250-3000 Savage to do the job. NO doubt about penetration and stopping power with the barrel resting against their head when he fired.

I participated in a wild hog hunt in the farming region around Adana, Turkey, back in the early 80's. The hunters were all using 12ga. Shotguns with punkin' ball slugs. One of the hogs was hit in the spine just back of the shoulders. His back legs stopped working, but he still charged us with his front legs. Was not real fast, but wasn't gonna stop until he died. Took a couple of those punkin' balls in the head to stop him.

Yes, I think a 20mm (minimum) Gatling would be about right.

Bill

[Scrounge]

I shoot a lot of .38s in .357s too.
For hunting, self defense, I'll gas a few up to full power, but mostly load to .38 speeds.

It reminds me of the 'Happy Days' episode where Al was commenting on Fonzie's recent tune up of their school bus.

"You may never need a school bus to go from zero to sixty in three seconds, but it's nice to know you can".

Yes, Sir. Exactly right.

[megasupermagnum]

Obviously, that extra 1/10th inch gives us more room to take those hot loads even further. Given that we can greatly manipulate how a bullet penetrates or expands based on bullet design and alloy or jacket composition, and that even hot .357's won't really be fast enough to make much of an enlarged, rifle-like permanent cavity by means of sufficiently rapid hydrostatic displacement, I think the .357's advantage is mostly going to be in flattening trajectory. I don't think anything shot with a 175 grain non-expanding flat point would be able to tell what case and load data it was fired with.

It never stops amazing me how someone can just shrug off 500 extra fps as trivial, on a round that was only doing 900 fps to begin with.

[downzero]

It never stops amazing me how someone can just shrug off 500 extra fps as trivial, on a round that was only doing 900 fps to begin with.

It's as if the pressure limit doubling had no bearing on the output!

It ain't close, folks. .357 Magnum is a LOT more powerful than any book 38 Special load. When 357 Magnum was introduced, it was the most powerful handgun cartridge that existed at that time. It's still the standard by which many are judged.

[Golfswithwolves]

Because I found a nice S&W Heavy Duty and have been having fun loading for it and shooting it, I suggest that the .38/44 might be a great compromise between the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum. This chambering in a K frame revolver would be pretty cool!

[USSR]

So, a 38 spl, loaded with whatever bullet & XYZ powder may be perfectly fine for most stuff,, you may find the NEED for more power & that's where...

a .44 or .45 is needed. I don't reach for added velocity, just added diameter. Just MHO.

Don

[Win94ae]

If I'm carrying, it is because I'd be expecting trouble, so I'd go full power 357mag.

I see a lot of mentions of "Keith bullets", and low velocities... Kieth would be loading those to ludicrous speeds; and while in 38 special cases.

[ddixie884]

Because I found a nice S&W Heavy Duty and have been having fun loading for it and shooting it, I suggest that the .38/44 might be a great compromise between the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum. This chambering in a K frame revolver would be pretty cool!

Yes it is called a Combat Magnum. Chambered in .357 Magnum and designed for a limited number of full .357s and mostly used with Mid range Magnums and .38s.......

[dougader]

38 Spl is fine for paper punching and rolling rabbits. For SD it's 357.

If I need more than that, I go up in caliber.

[wgg]

I bought a model S&W 10-8 a couple of years ago because I had never had one. I have several 357 revolvers. I find I carry the model 10 or a model 15 mainly with plus p handloads. I killed 3 hogs last year with those two because thats what I had on me. My dogs had bayed the hogs so I was not stopping a charge. My cast hp boolits run 160 grains. A benefit to the 38 plus p is that my ears don't ring after shooting. I wear hearing protection but sometimes it is not available for whatever reason. Take a look at the Hodgdon loads for 38 plus p. It's not a weak sister.

[Gray Fox]

The majority of my .357s are N frames, with the two newest being a 4" and a 5" 8-shot stainless. In them I usually carry a handload with Ranch Dog's 175 grain RNFP which also runs well in my Rossi '92. If I needed more horesepower I would carry either a 4" 629 Mountain Gun or my 4" 25-5 in .45 Colt at about the same carry weight. I have one J frame .357 2" hammerless, but I normally carry factory Rem 110 grain +Ps in it and my lightweitht hammerless, too. Factory 158 grain jacketed HPs are no joy in the 2" but a 158 grain Lee RNFP at about 950 fps might be manageable in a .357 case. GF