RotoMetals2Lee PrecisionLoad DataMidSouth Shooters Supply
Inline FabricationWidenersRepackboxReloading Everything
Titan Reloading
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 125

Thread: Is a .357mag needed? Why not a .38sp?

  1. #61
    Boolit Master


    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    2,833
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cash View Post
    Depends upon what else walks in your woods and what you might be self defending against. For the last 2 events, I would prefer all the steam it can give me.
    Agreed. For bear, 357 mag gives you 'ok' odds. 38sp? Good luck.... Lots of necropsies find 9mm slugs in healed tissue in bears... So I'd want more than 9mm... Thus..357 and up

  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    Agreed. For bear, 357 mag gives you 'ok' odds. 38sp? Good luck.... Lots of necropsies find 9mm slugs in healed tissue in bears... So I'd want more than 9mm... Thus..357 and up
    Show me one honest case where someone found a 9mm bullet healed into a bear. Not Bubba's, best friends, uncle. Show me one first hand case of a bullet of any kind healed in a bear.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master


    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    2,833
    Well I never thought I had to record them but I'll look around to find the last story I read was a hiker that was killed by a bear and they found him partially eaten when Park Rangers kill the bear and did a necropsy on it it had multiple bullets in it that were Old Wounds

  4. #64
    Boolit Master Groo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    956
    Groo here
    Let us all remember that the JHP or cast equal's main requirement is NOT to overpenatrate!!!!!!!!!
    So the FBI spec [Fxxxing Baxxbusting Incompance] Has little to do with a vast majority of our shooting..
    After looking at the specs [compairing to known fight stoppers] ,, I just pitched the hole thing...
    It has as much relation to the real world as shooting water jugs, Ice ,clear jell or the old standard == clear pine boards....
    As to the snub if the load is a lighter one [like many ones now a days] if you want penatration ,you DON'T want it to expand.
    A smaller hole is better than NO hole....

  5. #65
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Terrace, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    5,245
    We all know of the elderly First Nation lady who, from close range, shot the largest recorded inland Grizzly bear with a .22lr. She shot the bear in the ear cavity. The event took place in Northern Alberta in the Slave Lake in the 50". That aside, IMHO carrying a 38spl in the woods for protection where wildlife is one of your concerns would be foolish, just saying. The .357Mag is the minimum caliber in BC for our Wilderness Permit. A hopped up 38spl is not listed nor would it be accepted.

    If I remember correctly the .357mag was the #1 one shot man stopper listed by the FBI was it not?

    Take Care

    Bob
    Last edited by robertbank; 06-17-2021 at 12:27 PM.
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  6. #66
    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    So. Indiana
    Posts
    1,861
    Under certain light conditions, a .357 produces a ball of flame. Sometimes even if the first shot doesn’t hit or is non lethal, the disagreement is resolved in favor of whoever holds the “cannon”. At one time, the 125 grain JHP had the most one shot stops in LEO use.

  7. #67
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    4,535
    The FBI specs are not meaningless. They brought a LOT of attention to the issues that many HP rounds had back then, ie, when fired through thick clothing the HP clogged up and they did not expand. After the FBI specs were decided on the ammo mfgs revamped most of their bullets to perform better.

    "In the old days", the 125gn .357mag was the minimum used by many state police. The SIG .357 was developed to duplicate that performance in a semi-auto and they had a lot of sales to law organizations because of it. Now days, due to bullet mfgs doing a lot more testing, even the 9mm performs well enough to satisfy those LEO's.

  8. #68
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,572
    lately ive been shooting a lot of 357 mag with 38156 with 17 grains 300mp in both the old Rossi 92 and in wheel guns, the Rossi is real picky as to what feed smoothly in it, I was using a bunch of 125 grain bullets from mp mold with 8.5 grains be86, but the old ideal design 156 just works great in whatever I shoot it in and its close to full power load, if I'm gonna shoot at something living I want to be sure its going down. and might as well practice with the same load.
    now in my lend lease smith and Wesson it gets fed 38 spa with 5 grains be86 for the 125 the special sure doesn't need a gas check.
    crazy thing is ive got several other molds for 38/357 and the only other one that's interesting is mp360640

  9. #69
    Boolit Master dougader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    OryGun
    Posts
    625
    Why not drop a step in caliber to 32? Honestly, for most chores in town or woodswalking in this area a 32 H&R mag will work just fine.

    If six 123 grain Mihec hps or six 100 grain xtp's won't handle the situation I jump up to 44 Spl, 45 Colt or 480 Ruger...

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,899
    Quote Originally Posted by dougader View Post
    Why not drop a step in caliber to 32? Honestly, for most chores in town or woodswalking in this area a 32 H&R mag will work just fine.

    If six 123 grain Mihec hps or six 100 grain xtp's won't handle the situation I jump up to 44 Spl, 45 Colt or 480 Ruger...
    In my case, I have three rifles and four pistols in .38/.357. I have all the molds I need and plenty of cheap .38 brass. Nothing wrong with .32’s but nothing to warrant adding it. All my guns will take .357 pressure so I use .38 cases and load to whatever level I want.

    In any case, I can plink with .32 level loads if I so desire, but a .32 will not match a .357....so it has limitations.
    Don Verna


  11. #71
    Boolit Master



    ddixie884's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Avery, Texas
    Posts
    1,309
    If it is the new Unique, I wouldn't start at over 5.5 and 5 would probably be better. It seems a little faster than older bottles. Probably just normal variance lot to lot......

    Sorry bout that I was answering a post that has since been deleted.......
    Last edited by ddixie884; 06-16-2021 at 12:44 PM.
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  12. #72
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    321
    A friend took several E Ky deer out his back door with a Lyman 358477 and 4 grains of Red Dot. He did the same with an Old Army. If you can shoot.....

  13. #73
    Boolit Master
    Scrounge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    OKC Metro
    Posts
    1,433
    Quote Originally Posted by gunther View Post
    A friend took several E Ky deer out his back door with a Lyman 358477 and 4 grains of Red Dot. He did the same with an Old Army. If you can shoot.....
    I don't believe deer are as tough as bears or the 2-legged home invaders. They almost never wear body armor, either. If I have to shoot a bear or a human breaking into my house while we're in it, I want something that will knock them down and stomp on them. I love shooting the .38special, and that is SWMBO's bedside gun, but I expect I'll be on the other side of the bed unloading .357 mag and/or .45acp on them. Or the 12ga. YMMV, and you're an adult, you can make your own decisions, but deer don't usually take meth before kicking in your door, either.

  14. #74
    Boolit Master
    Daekar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    614
    All my guns can handle 357mag pressures. In a rifle or large handgun, I don't mind full-power 357 at all and I have some loads which push 158gr bullets to very respectable velocities. In my S&W M60, my carry gun, I absolutely do not shoot full-power 357. Whether the gun can take it or not (it can) is pretty irrelevant in my mind, I simply can't tolerate the recoil and my shot recovery is terrible. In a small gun, regular 38spl loads are plenty for me... if 158gr @ 800-900fps doesn't cure what ails me, I'm pretty sure nothing else I can handle in a small gun will either.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  15. #75
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Terrace, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    5,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Daekar View Post
    All my guns can handle 357mag pressures. In a rifle or large handgun, I don't mind full-power 357 at all and I have some loads which push 158gr bullets to very respectable velocities. In my S&W M60, my carry gun, I absolutely do not shoot full-power 357. Whether the gun can take it or not (it can) is pretty irrelevant in my mind, I simply can't tolerate the recoil and my shot recovery is terrible. In a small gun, regular 38spl loads are plenty for me... if 158gr @ 800-900fps doesn't cure what ails me, I'm pretty sure nothing else I can handle in a small gun will either.
    Smart move Daekar. Nobody I know of walks very far with a bullet in their head. Your load will certainly do that. You hopefully will never have to test the issue. Be Well.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  16. #76
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eureka MT
    Posts
    2,513
    Needed for what? I lived in AK for 32 years and most folks there that spent time in the woods didn't think the 357 was needed. Most thought a handgun round should start with a 4 and even then the 41 mag as about minimum and many preferred the 12 ga over any hand gun.

    The grizzly is really tough and even if you kill one with a 357, it may not be fast enough to keep you alive. Black bear and few other critters are nearly as tough.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master


    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    2,833
    327mag..maybe.. Only because it has e57 performance level. 32 hrmag only has 38spl performance level.

  18. #78
    Boolit Master FISH4BUGS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Inland from Seacoast New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,744
    Doesn't anyone think shot placement is the more important point?
    Collector and shooter of guns and other items that require a tax stamp, Lead and brass scrounger. Never too much brass, lead or components in inventory! Always looking to win beauty contests with my reloads.

  19. #79
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Terrace, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    5,245
    Quote Originally Posted by FISH4BUGS View Post
    Doesn't anyone think shot placement is the more important point?
    Sure but sometimes bullets don't go where they are supposed to go and that is when the extra umph of the .357Mag might come in handy. The 5' tall Cree lady downed her Grizzly with one shot from her .22lr but I would not carry a .22lr to protect myself from a Grizzly.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    Well I never thought I had to record them but I'll look around to find the last story I read was a hiker that was killed by a bear and they found him partially eaten when Park Rangers kill the bear and did a necropsy on it it had multiple bullets in it that were Old Wounds
    I'm still waiting on any evidence to back up your claim.

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check