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Thread: God, the killer

  1. #81
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    I am not what one would call a true believer I would describe myself as an agnostic. I do believe in 9 of the 10 commandments and have great respect for those who do believe and can follow and live up to their religious beliefs. I have asked several ministers the very question the OP has asked and the best answer I have come away with is, we are mere mortals and don't have the right to question God and what he has planned for us. I realise this does not answer the OP's question but I don't think anyone here can with any certainty as we are mere mortals. The word faith is used much in religious circles and I believe that this is the one word that comes close to answering the OPs question, have faith that our God knows what he is doing and has a plan for us all, questioning God will only detract form the true goal he has for all. I certainly would not say God is not perfect as one writer has said. Luke 22-36 has always been one I have thrown up at ministers and I have got many different answers however I prefer to take it as said. Regards Stephen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Cohen View Post
    I am not what one would call a true believer I would describe myself as an agnostic. I do believe in 9 of the 10 commandments and have great respect for those who do believe and can follow and live up to their religious beliefs.
    Steve, I think you've missed a couple of important facts.

    First, the Bible "believe" (John 3:16) is perhaps better understood as "trust." We all have to believe in a lot of people we don't know and can't understand and we trust them because most of them have been trustworthy; doctors, pilots, druggists, auto mechanics, builders of tall buildings and huge bridges, etc. God has lived up to my expectations for so long I now totally believe he will continue to be trustworthy and will keep His promises for eternity.

    Second, the whole point of the gospel (i.e., the spiritual good news of the New Testament) is that we are not expected to deserve or earn our acceptance by God. We all know that no one can live perfectly, before or after becoming a believer, but we should live as best we can and joyfully rest - trust - that our total sin debt has already been paid by Lord Jesus on the cross.

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    1hole, I have to say I would agree with all you say. Interesting you mention Doctors, my Doctor who treated me for my recent cancer is a devoted Christian and we had a discussion about the original OPs question a couple weeks back. I put it to my Doctor that while he feels he could not take a life even in self defense there was a place for those like me who actually could, for without those like me and other like minded people, he and those like him would never have survived dictators like Hitler. I must say he did not share my view and in fact chose to disagree strongly with me. As a good Christian friend of mine once told me, come judgment day, we will be judged by the purity of our belief and the reasons for the actions we took in life, and he believed there would be those who would be judged worthy even though they were not believers in the true sense. He may have been wrong but I choose to think he may just be right. Regards Stephen

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    Some people just need killing, maybe harsh to say but true, I have always thought God can do whatever he feels is right, he is all knowing. He knows things we do not and he has a plan for all of us . My humble opinion is we should not judge what God does , because we have no way of knowing everything he knows. Faith and trust .
    Keep your powder dry and watch your six !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    God made weighty demands in the OT with stiff penalties for violators. But consider the endless chapters where he begs his people to repent and avoid the consequences of their actions. This was the purpose of the prophets and their messages. A reader can easily see God's love in the prophets' words. God does not want to punish.

    A person once said the only possible legitimate criticism of Jesus was that his ethic was too high. He literally asked his followers for perfection in thought, attitude and behavior. Consider that his third most discussed topic was the destruction of the wicked (those that disregarded his words). But like his Father, he implored people to repent and avoid punishment.

    Jesus' messages came from what he learned in the OT. The Father and The Son are the same in character, message and love for mankind.
    he may have demanded perfection but it was more to strive for it then actually be it. He knew we are imperfect and all sinners. Its kind of why i find the judgmental such hypocrites. Problem lies in that man doesnt seem to strive for perfection and that includes Christians. Its more a train of thought that "how much can i get away with" What ive found is Christians seem to be some of the most judgmental people on earth and it flys in the face of one of Gods most important lessons. Its HIM that judges not man. Every time you tell someone there a failed Christian or are doing something wrong your sinning plain and simple. Some try to hide it by claiming there evangelizing but they chase more away then they bring to God. NO christian needs you chastising them using scripture to do it. Only one your impressing is your self and thats being prideful which is another sin.


    I dont push my religion or beliefs on anyone. I will defend them if called out or if someone asks I will give an opinion but if they dont its probably because they dont want my advice. Nothing would turn me off more then some wanabe bible scholar giving HIS opinion of the scriptures or quoting one verbatim thinking that impresses . Offer to give them a ride to church. Heck give them one of those history books and if they want they can read it and if they have questions then answer them. But even then you need to keep in mind that its only opinion. 10 people at bible study on thursday night from the same church will come up with different meanings of the same scripture. Very few will agree with someone elses opinion. Some even ignore whats right there in black and white and think they can selectively believe what's wrote. Then factor in theres over a 100 Christian churches in the world and all have slightly different base beliefs. Whos wrong and whos right? Well all of us probably fall into both category's and the only way to find out whos really right is to visit the undertaker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    Every time you tell someone there a failed Christian or are doing something wrong your sinning plain and simple.
    Telling someone they are a failed Christian is not a loving, biblical thing to do. But calling out a fellow brother or sister for repeated, willful sin is biblical and instructed by Jesus and Paul. The idea is that sin harms the sinner and those around him and presents a negative example. To help another Christian identify and overcome sin is a loving thing to do. I won't post chapter and verse because that somehow offends you, but trust me it's in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Cohen View Post
    I am not what one would call a true believer I would describe myself as an agnostic. I do believe in 9 of the 10 commandments and have great respect for those who do believe and can follow and live up to their religious beliefs. I have asked several ministers the very question the OP has asked and the best answer I have come away with is, we are mere mortals and don't have the right to question God and what he has planned for us. I realise this does not answer the OP's question but I don't think anyone here can with any certainty as we are mere mortals. The word faith is used much in religious circles and I believe that this is the one word that comes close to answering the OPs question, have faith that our God knows what he is doing and has a plan for us all, questioning God will only detract form the true goal he has for all. I certainly would not say God is not perfect as one writer has said. Luke 22-36 has always been one I have thrown up at ministers and I have got many different answers however I prefer to take it as said. Regards Stephen
    There is a big difference between "faith" and "blind faith". Faith is the willingness to rely on God for life, death and all matters in-between. Blind faith is the willingness to swallow whatever dogma is pushed your way. It is never wrong to question dogma, not matter how strongly folks push it at you are fact and will heap spiritual judgment on you if you don't accept their dogma passed off as divine fact. God created us with minds to reason and applying that reason to religious dogma is not a lack of faith.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

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    In my decades of preaching, I never preached against any particular sin. I defined sin and told of it's insidious nature and destructive effect on us. I didn't have to tell folks they are/were sinners, because they knew that. I chose rather to lift up a crucified and risen Christ who died to pay the price for our sins and reconcile us to God the Father. I offered them Christ and left the rest up to the Sprit. This had a far more positive effect than any sin killing fire and brimstone preaching. Far more folks are loved into the Kingdom than scared into the Kingdom. Anyway, that is my take on the matter.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    ....Far more folks are loved into the Kingdom than scared into the Kingdom.
    That's true.

    Only believers (meaning the true followers of Christ) truly fear hell. Why some (thankfully, very few) well meaning but mislead Christians strive to get people who don't yet believe in God to fear God's hell escapes me.

    Scripture tells us not to judge others. That's clear, but it's NOT a blanket instruction; we are also told that we can (and should) judge a tree by the quality of the fruit it bears. In application, that means we have no way of judging anyone else's salvation, as such, but we can and indeed should lovingly judge the known poor spiritual quality of our church member's lives. (see 1 Cor, chap 5)

    Those who lead openly immoral lives cannot rightly be allowed to hold official positions within the church organization. Thus, within proper public behavior and dress limits, all drug dealers, prostitutions, lesbiterans, homosexables, etc., should be welcome to sit in a pew and hear the word but they may not rightly be appointed or ordained into any church office nor should they be allowed to stand behind any holy pulpit. Rightly doing that requires serious Christians to make wise spiritual judgements of other people's lives.

    One of the major causes of the church's degeneration over the past hundred years has risen from NOT being properly judgemental within our own ranks. Kind people who lovingly accept everything oppose nothing and no lasting spiritual good has yet come from their indiscriminate "love."

    IMHO.
    Last edited by 1hole; 06-02-2021 at 10:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    In my decades of preaching, I never preached against any particular sin. I defined sin and told of it's insidious nature and destructive effect on us. I didn't have to tell folks they are/were sinners, because they knew that. I chose rather to lift up a crucified and risen Christ who died to pay the price for our sins and reconcile us to God the Father. I offered them Christ and left the rest up to the Sprit. This had a far more positive effect than any sin killing fire and brimstone preaching. Far more folks are loved into the Kingdom than scared into the Kingdom. Anyway, that is my take on the matter.
    well said

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Telling someone they are a failed Christian is not a loving, biblical thing to do. But calling out a fellow brother or sister for repeated, willful sin is biblical and instructed by Jesus and Paul. The idea is that sin harms the sinner and those around him and presents a negative example. To help another Christian identify and overcome sin is a loving thing to do. I won't post chapter and verse because that somehow offends you, but trust me it's in there.
    big difference between teaching and lecturing. Bottom line is i see very little love involved in people being lectured on the internet about how they are not following scripture. Its MOSTLY arrogance of people wanting the rest of us to think they have the bible memorized. Ive been in these arguments (or if you want to call them discussions) on many different forums and 90 percent of it is a few guys throwing scripture back and forth at each other trying to impress the rest of us. Scripture or the bible knowlege isnt being tested at the pearly gates. Memorizing scipture and searching for hidden meanings in it just shows me one thing. That you wasted MANY hours that you could have spent helping others and following the example Jesus set for us. Tell me what Jesus would prefer. You spending two hours a week at bible study or memorizing scripture or spending that same two hours help less fortunate people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    big difference between teaching and lecturing. Bottom line is i see very little love involved in people being lectured on the internet about how they are not following scripture. Its MOSTLY arrogance of people wanting the rest of us to think they have the bible memorized. Ive been in these arguments (or if you want to call them discussions) on many different forums and 90 percent of it is a few guys throwing scripture back and forth at each other trying to impress the rest of us. Scripture or the bible knowlege isnt being tested at the pearly gates. Memorizing scipture and searching for hidden meanings in it just shows me one thing. That you wasted MANY hours that you could have spent helping others and following the example Jesus set for us. Tell me what Jesus would prefer. You spending two hours a week at bible study or memorizing scripture or spending that same two hours help less fortunate people.
    You seem to have a general disdain for the Bible itself, its study and knowledge of its contents. I am not sure why this is (or how it can be) as you claim to be a Christian. Where do your ideas about Christianity come from?

    Did you not consider that before Jesus started his ministry, he first received an education in (what we call) the Old Testament? This took up several years of his life. Apparently he and his parents thought this was time well spent.

    Very little (if anything) of what Jesus taught cannot be found in the Scripture he studied as a youth. In almost every argument he had with his enemies he referred to the Scriptures that both he and they regarded as authoritative.

    Jesus' ministry involved doing good for people by meeting their physical needs for sure (i.e., healing and feeding). But the main thing Jesus did was teach.

    I do agree that there are many people today that are quick to quote the Bible and probably shouldn't. I have found that there are lots of Christians out there that think they are experts when, in fact, they have very little understanding. This isn't much different than many other topics that people discuss on a daily basis. It is just the way human beings behave.

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    There are two aspects of Jesus, that occur simultaneously. First is the man Jesus, placed in the context of tension between the Roman state and a corrupt and resistant Jewish theocratic state. You must understand this to understand the second. Second, which is Jesus as Messiah. The Jews were taught to believe the the Messiah was to come as a warrior to remove the oppressors and reestablish the Jewish kingdom as it was under David. Jesus had hard time overcoming the cultural notion of Messiah and replacing it with a spiritual Messiah who had come to overcome sin. He challenge the Jewish establishment as a corrupted and perverted version of what God intended and they set out to silence him, which they eventually did, using the Romans as their executioners. His ministry changed, when his "disciples" finally broke the code and figured out who Jesus was and what he was all about.

    Bill O'Reilly's book "Killing Jesus" does a good job of laying out, in a popular reading format, the First one above, but does little or nothing to address the spiritual Jesus in the second above. The New Testament is where we learn about Jesus as Messiah and Savior. We really need an understanding of both aspect of Jesus, to understand the whole concept. Jesus appeared at a certain point of time, which the NT refers to as "the fullness of time". Why then and why not earlier or later? There is an answer to that and is to be found in understanding both aspects of Jesus.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 06-03-2021 at 11:54 AM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    Ive been in these arguments (or if you want to call them discussions) on many different forums and 90 percent of it is a few guys throwing scripture back and forth at each other trying to impress the rest of us. Scripture or the bible knowlege isnt being tested at the pearly gates.
    Personal ignorance of scripture is not a spiritual strength and, yes, we do "argue" over things we closely examine. But an argument is not a heated quarrel, an argument is simply a reasoned point and counterpoint discussion; we've been over that before.

    Good (intelligent) lawyers rationally and reasonably argue their cases before a court, point by point, and they know not to get angry and quarrel or they will lose. Heated "discussions" - quarrels - tempers usually rise when an ignorant loser is cornered and has few facts. In court, at home, on a street corner or on the web, hot temper quarrels are always stupid, they are never intelligently reasoned arguments.

    Now, a scriptural fact; nothing will be "tested at the pearly gates". We each choose our own eternal destination before we die (John 3:16-18) so no subsequent salvation judgement by God is required.

    AND no matter what the Pope says, there is no second chance purgatory where we can pay off any part of our sin debt. In this flesh, each of us must choose who will pay the totality of our sin debt. Either Jesus has paid for ALL of our sins on his (now) empty cross OR Jesus paid nothing meaningful and therefore we must pay it all for ourselves ... we can't do it, and that's some BAD juju! We learn things like that by actually studying God's scripture and understanding what his not so secret messages to mankind really are.

    We can't possibly learn much of what our Father has written to us if we limit ourselves to an occasional few minutes of casual reading a couple of times a year - also known as being too lazy and disinterested to study the wisdom of God.

    Tell me what Jesus would prefer. You spending two hours a week at bible study or memorizing scripture or spending that same two hours help less fortunate people.
    For goodness sake Lloyd, you want to tell us what Jesus would prefer and then present a false argument to justify your woeful lack of Bible study. Your chosen options are only two hours for or with God each week and then call it quits? And how many "two hours" do YOU commit to the cause of Christ each week?

    I often read your posts and wonder how many hours and hundreds of dollars you spend each week blowing time and money out of a gun barrel that could be much better spent helping poor people. Or, by your own posted standards, is that not a fair question?

    My point is, your imaginary weekly two hour setups are meaningless. A week has a lot of minutes (10,080). Do you really think it would be too much for God to ask serious Christians to do 120 minutes of study each week, less than 15 minutes a day, in addition to all the other good things we should be doing?
    Actually, very few of us have our private prayer and study time in the middle of a day so whatever time we study or memorise scripture instead of just scratching our butts and watching TV doesn't distract from our week at all.

    I've long read your many posts Lloyd. If you're honest, and I think you are, I know something about how many guns you have and something of how many components and reloading toys are stored in your man cave and how often you spend your days at a gun range. You've repeatedly told the world about how many hours (and therefore dollars) you spend blowing powder out of a muzzle each week. Ask yourself, at what point do you think Jesus would say, "That's enough!"

    Now, prompted by your post, I have to wonder how much of your own weekly time and money might be better spent on Bible study AND actually helping the less fortunate, instead of posting an occasional web rant trying to put down others who can chew gum and walk at the same time?

    Answer those questions and maybe THEN you can rightfully tell us what's proper for time and money pressed Christians to do for those wonderful two hours each week. Otherwise ... ???
    Last edited by 1hole; 06-04-2021 at 08:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    You seem to have a general disdain for the Bible itself, its study and knowledge of its contents. I am not sure why this is (or how it can be) as you claim to be a Christian. Where do your ideas about Christianity come from?

    Did you not consider that before Jesus started his ministry, he first received an education in (what we call) the Old Testament? This took up several years of his life. Apparently he and his parents thought this was time well spent.

    Very little (if anything) of what Jesus taught cannot be found in the Scripture he studied as a youth. In almost every argument he had with his enemies he referred to the Scriptures that both he and they regarded as authoritative.

    Jesus' ministry involved doing good for people by meeting their physical needs for sure (i.e., healing and feeding). But the main thing Jesus did was teach.

    I do agree that there are many people today that are quick to quote the Bible and probably shouldn't. I have found that there are lots of Christians out there that think they are experts when, in fact, they have very little understanding. This isn't much different than many other topics that people discuss on a daily basis. It is just the way human beings behave.
    I have NO DISDAIN FOR THE BIBLE. I do have disdain for the people that use it as a weapon or use it to boost there egos by claiming they understand it more then me. Jesus did teach. His #1 lesson is that faith is what will get you to heaven not memorizing a book. Ill ask again explain why if it is so important to you Jesus who was the son of God and was God on earth, part of the holy trinity didnt let his appostles know that there would be a book that would change the world and would be written by the hand of his father. His father came down and gave moses the ten commandments. Why did he leave it up to some catholic munks to write what some think is the centerpiece to christianity. In many ways more important then the ten commandments. If it was truly him that inspired it why have it wrote in a way that can be questioned and misinterpreted even by educated man today let alone back when it was wrote when probably less then 5 percent of the people could even read it.

    To me the bible is like the old saying of whispering something in a kids ear and having it passed along in the classroom and asking the last kid what was said. Its been translated into so many languages and in so many versions how do we even know what is right and what is wrong even if we could understand it thoroughly. I have no disrespect for it. matter of fact i think its the greatest history book ever wrote and is our only clues to Jesus time on earth. But ive read it cover to cover and probably some of it two and three times and find more questions then answers. Like is said its a book. A good guide to being as good of a christian as a man can be but to be lectured on it by another sinner who thinks hes somehow better then me because he memorized some words and doesnt know anymore then i do how God thinks i can do without. Like is said you can spend hours studying it and memorizing it and it isnt getting you to heaven. Being a christain and having faith in God is what is getting you there. We had a good priest here for years. He was not only my priest but a friend. His favorite saying was he was a sinner just like you and no better and no smarter and no more guaranteed a place in heaven then you. I guess too (and this might rock the boat) that one of the main reasons i prefer being a catholic is we dont bother with trying to find hidden meanings in it. Our church teaches the same thing whether your in a church in canada, italy or in michigan. We all believe the same thing. We trust that 2000 years of people believing the same thing trumps some old lady at bible studys opinion. Believe what you want. Your not hurting me. Thats the last ill say on this. Anymore and im as bad as the pretenders quoting scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    Our church teaches the same thing whether your in a church in canada, italy or in michigan. We all believe the same thing. We trust that 2000 years of people believing the same thing trumps some old lady at bible studys opinion.
    No, your church has NOT believed the same thing for 2,000 years. The single biggest church split that has ever happened was when the Eastern and Western parts separated into Roman and Orthodox and no mean ol' Protestants were in sight.

    A web search for Catholic splinter groups will show your error about everyone "believing" anything a pope or "munk" might spoon feed you.

    None of that includes the known historical and near constant internal power struggles within your priesthood for political dominance and control over the Church.

    So, nope, your claim of every Catholic being in agreement just isn't true!

    Why in the world do you claim that "(Roman?) Catholic munks" wrote the Bible? I mean, there was NO church hierarchy, and there was NO established Bible canon, before about 375 AD and we have solid reason to believe Revelation was written and the canon closed about three hundred years earlier! (The canon did not and still should not include the Roman Catholics' later added and spurious Apocrypha books.)

    Knowing a lot of your church's doctrines and policies leaves me thinking I'd prefer the Christian church be led by an old ladies' Bible study and prayer group rather than your historical leaders. I believe the ladies are much more likely to follow God rather than a bunch of self-seeking dirty old men.
    Last edited by 1hole; 06-03-2021 at 07:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    I have NO DISDAIN FOR THE BIBLE. I do have disdain for the people that use it as a weapon or use it to boost there egos by claiming they understand it more then me. Jesus did teach. His #1 lesson is that faith is what will get you to heaven not memorizing a book. Ill ask again explain why if it is so important to you Jesus who was the son of God and was God on earth, part of the holy trinity didnt let his appostles know that there would be a book that would change the world and would be written by the hand of his father. His father came down and gave moses the ten commandments. Why did he leave it up to some catholic munks to write what some think is the centerpiece to christianity. In many ways more important then the ten commandments. If it was truly him that inspired it why have it wrote in a way that can be questioned and misinterpreted even by educated man today let alone back when it was wrote when probably less then 5 percent of the people could even read it.

    To me the bible is like the old saying of whispering something in a kids ear and having it passed along in the classroom and asking the last kid what was said. Its been translated into so many languages and in so many versions how do we even know what is right and what is wrong even if we could understand it thoroughly. I have no disrespect for it. matter of fact i think its the greatest history book ever wrote and is our only clues to Jesus time on earth. But ive read it cover to cover and probably some of it two and three times and find more questions then answers. Like is said its a book. A good guide to being as good of a christian as a man can be but to be lectured on it by another sinner who thinks hes somehow better then me because he memorized some words and doesnt know anymore then i do how God thinks i can do without. Like is said you can spend hours studying it and memorizing it and it isnt getting you to heaven. Being a christain and having faith in God is what is getting you there. We had a good priest here for years. He was not only my priest but a friend. His favorite saying was he was a sinner just like you and no better and no smarter and no more guaranteed a place in heaven then you. I guess too (and this might rock the boat) that one of the main reasons i prefer being a catholic is we dont bother with trying to find hidden meanings in it. Our church teaches the same thing whether your in a church in canada, italy or in michigan. We all believe the same thing. We trust that 2000 years of people believing the same thing trumps some old lady at bible studys opinion. Believe what you want. Your not hurting me. Thats the last ill say on this. Anymore and im as bad as the pretenders quoting scripture.
    Yeah, all that sure makes it sound like you respect the Bible.

    It doesn't sound like you have a good handle on Church history or the development of the NT either.

    It might be hard for you to believe, but there are plenty of people in the world (and on this site) that understand the Bible better than you.
    Last edited by Ickisrulz; 06-03-2021 at 02:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Yeah, all that sure makes it sound like you respect the Bible.

    It doesn't sound like you have a good handle on Church history or the development of the NT either.

    It might be hard for you to believe, but there are plenty of people in the world (and on this site) that understand the Bible better than you.
    well give yourself a pat on the back if your one of them. Sure isnt getting you through the pearly gates though. FAITH in God not a book is what opens that gate. You keep memorizing and trying to find hidden meanings and ill go out and be a chirstian and we will see who has better luck at that gate.

    Never once said i understand it better then you or anyone else. Never said my church was perfect. Matter of fact is said (if you read my posts) that i didnt agree with everything my church does and that none of it matters to God. God demands we believe and have faith. He doesnt demand we read the bible or go to a certain church. At least i never saw that he did in the bible. Might be some opinions of MAN in there that claim you need to. But nothing from God. Who by the way you claim wrote the book. Twist what i say if you must. But in the big picture your as much of a sinner as i am.
    Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 06-04-2021 at 04:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    well give yourself a pat on the back if your one of them. Sure isnt getting you through the pearly gates though. FAITH in God not a book is what opens that gate. You keep memorizing and trying to find hidden meanings and ill go out and be a chirstian and we will see who has better luck at that gate.

    Never once said i understand it better then you or anyone else. Never said my church was perfect. Matter of fact is said (if you read my posts) that i didnt agree with everything my church does and that none of it matters to God. God demands we believe and have faith. He doesnt demand we read the bible or go to a certain church. At least i never saw that he did in the bible. Might be some opinions of MAN in there that claim you need to. But nothing from God. Who by the way you claim wrote the book. Twist what i say if you must. But in the big picture your as much of a sinner as i am.
    Your reasoning is all over the place on this. You say that God never told man to read the Bible, but then say if it is in there, it is the opinion of man. You say that God demands that we believe and have faith. Where do you get that idea from? It comes from the Bible!

    From your posts, you say the only authoritative word from God we have are the 10 Commandments, since The Father came down from heaven and gave them to us. The problem with that is that the only way we know God gave the 10 Commandments to Israel and their content is through the biblical record, which you have said is only a product of man.

    You say we should exercise our faith in doing good works. This is also a biblical principle if you are not aware.

    The ironic part of all your posts in this thread is you are doing the very thing you accuse others of doing. That is finding fault in fellow Christians for not living up to a set of ideals. The difference in your case is that you are not quoting Scripture, but you are putting forth your own opinions (based on who knows what).

    Am I as big a sinner as you? Maybe even bigger. I don't think I ever suggest to anyone ever (let alone on this board) I was a fully sanctified person. Biblical knowledge does not make one righteous or saved. But when that knowledge is applied it will do wonders. Of course, if you don't have the knowledge you cannot apply it.

    I don't know why you insist that I or others on this board spend our time memorizing and looking for hidden meanings in the Bible. I don't believe I have ever spent my time trying to memorize Scripture. But I am familiar enough with it that I can tell you what is and isn't in there. As far a "hidden meanings," I don't believe that any meaning is hidden in the Bible. The original authors wrote to original audiences in manners that were easy to understand in their day and age (this includes the Apocalypse). Serious readers attempt to understand biblical content keeping this in mind. There is more agreement than disagreement on interpretation when using this approach.
    Last edited by Ickisrulz; 06-04-2021 at 08:33 AM.

  20. #100
    Banned








    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    17,725
    you guys can sure twist the words to fit your agenda. If preaching doesnt work out for you you should look at a career as a democratic politician.

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